Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast. If I'm coaching somebody and maybe we're talking about some things that their boss has asked them to start to change, or to adapt or reshape in some way, I may sit back and say, "Well, how do you feel about it?" And the person is like, "I could care less. I mean, I personally, I think it's just bunk.""My boss wants me to change and I might need to change for this promotion, but I don't want to do it." And so that's where you want to have a time out and to clarify and get really intentional about what really is motivating you and why. And sometimes you need to dig deep or reframe and to appreciate alternative viewpoints as you then sit back and say, "What really is motivating me and do I want to kind of build up that motivation?" Otherwise, no change will happen. All sorts of awareness and all sorts of desire, but you're not quite sure where and how and it dies. Any potential for change dies there. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host Daniel Stewart, joined with me with my brother Peter Stewart. And we're pleased to have you with us as we talk about tools and ideas to help you grow your leadership ability. So today, let's dive in to the first segment, an Insight of the Week. As Peter and I were prepping for this, he shared something fascinating, which kind of boggled my mind a little. I was kind of taken back. Peter, what was the insight that stood out to you this week? I find it just one of my missions in life, Daniel, to boggle your mind. My mind was boggled. I'm like, "What?" So anyway, share this, not to build it up too much, but please, yes. Yeah, so there was a Gallup poll that found that 15%, one five, 15% of people are not called by their preferred name at work. And when I first heard this, I thought, "Huh? Like, what does that really mean?" Because I wasn't a math major, but I quickly then figured out that means 85% of people are, which is, you know, a pretty good percentage. But then I realized, wow, for 15% of people at work, their name might be Andrew, and everybody's calling them Andy. And they hate Andy, or whatever that might be. So yeah, 15%. Mind boggling. Yeah, when you said that, I'm like, "Really?" And my heart goes out to these 15%. You're like, "Are they just, you know, suffering in silence?" And they're like, every time somebody calls them something, they're like, "That's not really my name." Or the classic challenge, when there are like two Jeffs in the group, and suddenly one's called Jeff, and the other one's called Jeffrey, or, you know, something like that, and you're just given a nickname. So, Peter, it makes me think, am I calling you the right name? Sorry, I don't mean to jest here, but anyway. Well, I don't know, it depends. Whatever you want to call me, Dan. You know, it's okay. Oh, no, see that. So that's a good point. So people who really know me, I like Daniel. That's my full name. I like Daniel. Dan, Danny, no. I like Daniel. And, you know, there are people who are well-meaning, and they will say Dan. And it's often from a place of familiarity, and they, you know, goodwill, and I get it. And I'll just very politely, "Hey, please call me Daniel." And so maybe that's an example, because I've been called Dan at times in the workplace. And I'll just kind of remind people, "Hey, would like to be called Daniel." So there you go. I guess I've been a 15 percenter sometimes. And same, like I'm Peter. There are a few people who have tried to call me Pete. I've never been Pete in my entire life. There was one guy in high school, a good buddy, who called me Petey. But he was also like 6'6" and 250 pounds and, you know, played line on University of Oregon Rose Bowl football team. You know, great guy, and I was fine with him calling me Petey. But yeah, so you think about the situation. You're new to an organization. You're new to a team. And people start calling you something, and it sticks. And maybe you've been with that team now for a few years, and everybody's calling you Dan or Pete or whatever it might be. And now it just feels weird to try and correct them. Well, as a leader, as you're hearing this, you can go to your team on the next call and say,"Hey, I just heard this really mind-boggling fact. 15 percent of people in the workforce are not called by their preferred names." Is there anybody here on this team who might be called something that they would rather be called something else? Yeah, and whether it's done in a group setting or one-on-one, it is a, on a serious note, that is a very appropriate thing to be able to then ask. Because years ago, I heard, "What is the most beautiful thing that anybody can hear?" And it's the sound of their name in terms of they are being recognized by who they are, how they want to be called. And that's a powerful thing that leaders and managers need to have with great clarity, knowing who that person is, and so much of that is represented with the name that they prefer to be called. That's a powerful thing. So all joking aside, that is, that's a powerful thing. And to be able to confirm that, to pronounce it correctly, to be able to address it properly, it then helps recognize and build that sense report. You know, there's so many conversations on how to remember people's names, so many tips and techniques. This name is significant. So that's a great point. And for leaders and managers to kind of take a moment and confirm,"Am I calling the person the name that they want to be called?" Yep. Fantastic point. Yeah, and as you're saying that, and are we pronouncing it correctly, especially as teams are more diverse, as you're trying to be much more sensitive to that, you want to be able to say it the best way and proper way that they prefer, that they're most comfortable with. Absolutely. Okay. Great point. So that's a little insight. So as we now shift, Daniel, to Memory Lane segment, I have two words for you. Two words, and let's see what memory this might trigger.[Music] The words are plotter pens. Plotter pens. Plotter.[Laughter] So for all the listeners, what Peter just said, plotter pen, you may be like,"What in the world does that even mean?" For Peter and I, we have a distinct memory. So it is sitting down as a kid, watching this plotter, this plotter device. It was an early version of a printer, and it had three or four distinct small little pens, and each a distinct color. And we would then insert a piece of paper. The plotter pens would then draw a beautiful graph on it, and then we'd put in a new piece of paper. And this is how we would then print out all of the 360-degree reports or other assessment reports for various clients. This was back '80s, '90s, before laser printing became really--and especially laser--color laser printing. And we knew that we had to then watch the quality of those plotter pens with like an eagle eye, because as soon as those plotter pens started to get a little dull or get a little smashed, then they weren't precise. And we had to stop and swap out for a new plotter pen so that every graph was exact and accurate and really sharp and clearly defined with the colors. Yeah. And it was fun watching the mechanism. I mean, the most analogous thing, I think, in today's world is watching a 3D printer. You know, go around it and build something with those lines. And because it's the single pen that would have this little carousel off to the side, and the little arm would grab one of the colored pens, and it would draw, and it would stay in place while the paper moved underneath it. So it was really just a vertical movement of it, and then when it needed a new color, it would go back to the carousel, pick up the new one, watching it create all these graphs. And so that was just a fun memory of thinking about the 360 assessments, thinking about that old piece of technology that just, wow, blast from three decades plus ago, thinking about that and connected to, what was it, an IBM-compatible 386 computer, which was like, oh, state-of-the-art, brand-new. And it would take forever to print out those reports. But anyway, plotter. If you haven't seen a plotter, maybe we can find some clip of what a plotter looks like. People can Google plotter. I think it was even HP that made it. I think so. But yeah, what stood out to me was the level of quality that we always needed to maintain. For every single graph and chart that was printed, for any sort of assessment, high levels of quality. And we would then need to redo it if it was not that high level. So anyway, that was deeply ingrained, but I have the memory of the "eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh," all of the mechanical sounds. We should have you do that sound again. You did the impersonation of the plotter sound very well. Because there was this very much mechanical grinding that would shift over. So fun to think about. I bet we could find one on eBay. Oh, I'm confident. Yeah. I don't know why we would want to find it, but I bet you we could find it. The harder part is probably finding the pens. We could get the actual plotter, but to find pens where the ink is still functioning. Because there were like little mini felt tip pens. And so the ink would run out and the felt tip kind of head would get less precise as it got used. So anyway, that's a little memory lane. And I think this is the point where listeners might be like, "That's interesting. Okay, get out of there. Get out of there." We're done with plotter pens. We're done with plotter pens. That's all good. So on to the topic at hand. Today, the Five Steps of Personal Change. And what we find is these five steps are so consistently needed. And there is a correct sequence in applying it. And any time you want to make personal change in habits or behaviors, you need to follow these five steps. And if you are not successful in making personal change, inevitably one or more of these steps was not done well enough. And so we're going to go through these five steps. Listeners, as you're thinking through this, I want you to begin imagining something that you might want to shift, change, reshape in some way. Maybe it's a habit. Maybe it's a behavior that you're thinking, "Ah, what might I do differently in the future?" And begin to think about how you might apply these five steps because they're critical. And we've seen the success of this consistently over decades. And we continue to use this to this day for personal development as well as applying to larger scale leadership development, organization development efforts to be able to help change behavior and to sustain it as well. And that last part of sustained change, and often as Dad will share this, he'll label it the Five Steps of Sustained Change. Because it helps change stick. It really helps alter those behaviors. Whether we're talking in a personal situation of a skill we're trying to build at home or change something in our personal life or in the professional setting, they're very much applicable. I found myself teaching these when I had therapy clients back in the clinic, talking about these steps of change because they're just foundational. And they're very basic as you sit and we review them. It's like there's nothing rocket science about it, but oh, they're powerful as you think about them. So here are the five steps. Five steps to change. First is awareness. You have to be aware that there's something that needs to change. Second is desire. There has to be some sort of desire to do something with it. And third are skills and resources. You have to have access to the skills and resources necessary to make the change. And fourth is action. You have to put it into action. So it's awareness, desire, skill resources, and action. So there we have the five steps of change. But Peter, you just gave four steps. Where's the fifth one? Well, there's three types of people in this world. Those who can count and those who can't. Oh my gosh. You really said that. I did. I just felt that. Okay. Thank you. So it's intentional to get you thinking because it's the fifth step that usually we forget. And it's that fifth step of support. We usually hit that wall after we put things into action and the support is what really helps this all be lasting. So those are the five steps. Awareness, desire, skills and resources, action, and support. So let's dissect these a little bit more. Love it. And you know, one way of illustrating this is to use something that a lot of us can relate to. And it's a weight loss or fitness example. And so if we use this as kind of an example to illustrate these five steps. So as we start off with the awareness piece, you may wake up and you're putting on a pair of pants and they're a little tighter. Awareness. Or you might be going up and up the stairs and you get a little out of breath and you're like, ah, awareness. Any of these pieces of information that kind of help you recognize something is different than your expectations. And you think, oh, okay, maybe I'm not as fit as I would like to be. Maybe I'm not at the current shape that I would like to be in. Alright. And you can have all sorts of awareness building. And yet it's lovely to increase awareness. And you can read all sorts of articles. You could watch documentaries and you can get all sorts of awareness around what am I learning? What am I, how am I comparing myself to this? All right. Lovely. However, no change is going to exist unless you go to the next step. And that next step is critical. Otherwise, as I mentioned, you can just keep learning all sorts of stuff. And this next step is the desire. How bad do you want it? What's the motivator? Peter, keep taking it from there. Yeah, you have to want to do something with the information. Maybe you're in the doctor's office and you have high blood pressure and you need to change something about your habit. You've been given that information. But what are we going to do with it? Is there some desire on an individual's part to change, to implement it, to alter a lifestyle, to alter a habit, to alter behavior, to put forth the effort required to make that adjustment? That's where there is the desire. So that part is key. And it's actually one of the harder parts, well, virtually impossible, to do for somebody else. You can't make them desire to do it. That's a good point. And to build on that, what we find is that there are two kinds of types of desire or motivation. The first, and that's the one that you're really talking about the most, is the internal motivation. It's internally focused and you want it bad for yourself. And you've reached that point where you're like, "I am going to do this." And it's that internal drive. That, we find, is the most effective. Although there is a second, and that is the external factor or the external motivator. And that can be due to a policy or a process or an environment or through peer pressure or some sort of cultural norm that you look at and it influences you and you then recognize, okay, whether you want to do it or not, you have this outside pressure. And that can be a powerful force to then build up your motivation for sure. And then move you forward so that you can begin to want to do something with the awareness piece. But I tell you, it's really important to then assess what is my motivation here. Because, you know, Peter, I'm sure you can have lots of examples. If I'm coaching somebody and maybe we're talking about some things that their boss has asked them to start to change or to adapt or reshape in some way, I may sit back and say,"Well, how do you feel about it?" And the person is like, "I could care less. I mean, I personally, I think it's just bunk. My boss wants me to change and I might need to change for this promotion. But I don't want to do it." And so that's where you want to have a time out and to clarify and get really intentional about what really is motivating you and why. And sometimes you need to dig deep or reframe and to appreciate alternative viewpoints as you then sit back and say, "What really is motivating me and do I want to kind of build up that motivation?" Otherwise, no change will happen. All sorts of awareness and all sorts of desire, but you're not quite sure where and how... it dies. Any potential for change dies there. And that's where I'd really add on the external motivators for desire are sparks for change. They're the spark to initiate change, but they are not going to provide sustained change. Unless that external motivator is internalized. It is transition from something outside of you to something that you now have a desire to do, that you want to do. So it's having as you were having that situation of a coaching conversation of,"Well, my boss just told me to do this and well, I don't want to do anything about it." It's like, "Okay, well, let's talk about this further. How can we use this to help identify something that you do care about to then build from?" We can do a whole session on desire and there's a whole line of intervention of questioning in the psychology realm called motivational interviewing. And it's this notion of how you help individuals progress through those stages of motivation by asking questions, by helping posture different outcomes next to each other and help them understand that. But it's a long process. And it's one of the few things that actually has research evidence behind it to improve somebody's motivation. That's awesome. You reminded me a recent executive VP I've been coaching. I have a lot of respect for her because when she first came, when we first started the coaching, the goal was to help her soften her approach. Because she had not developed very strong relationships with her peers in particular. Kind of an abrasive viewpoint at that point. So her style was not inviting. Correct. Correct. Very task, very direct, very to the point. And it just didn't fit well with others. And what I really appreciated what she did was she was willing to be open and to look to see what was she motivated to then begin to reshape and why. And we really did not dive in or start making progress until it was really internalized. So I love that spark. And then once it became an internalized thing and she saw the need for the business and people results to be able to be reshaped or rather her behavior to be reshaped to accomplish the business people results that she needed to do. Then, then we were able to start making some some headway. So anyway, so awareness, desire, and then sometimes people say, great, move into action. And we say, hold on. The third step is actually skills and resources. What do you then need to do? How do you build the muscle? How do you get the supplies, the equipment, be able to do something about it? Or even the knowledge of how to do something about it for those skills? Are you, do you have those internally? Do you have that skill set or is this something you're now needing to learn to educate yourself on to do? And it's looking at both the skills very much as the internal attributes, characteristics, talents that are inside some of somebody. And the resources are the access to things outside of them that would help enable that change to happen. So it's looking at it from both, both perspectives. And it's also, I think, worth noting that we're not putting that phrase of new in front of skills and resources. We get a little fixated and focused on what's the latest and greatest, you know, what is, what is the next craze? What is this, this new shiny object that's going to fix everything? More often than not, it's not some new fangled thing. It's tried and true efforts, skills, things that have been around, but we just need to remind ourselves of their function, of their use, or learn how to leverage them better. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, I was remembering several years ago. So you and I both travel so much as we work with clients of different leadership, teaming, work, or consulting engagements all over the country. You know, I'd put on a few pounds as, as traveling, eating, you know, out so much. And I remember thinking, okay, maybe I need to shift this out. And, and I, I distinctly remember I was in Maryland and I, I ordered crab's egg Benedict for breakfast. That sounds good. Oh, it was delicious. I mean, the, the hollandaise sauce on it and the, and the crab, it was great. And as I'm chewing on this delicious breakfast and I thought, you know what, I wonder how many calories is in this specific breakfast. And so I looked it up and Peter, can you guess how many calories are in eggs Benedict crab eggs Benedict? It's probably like 1800 calories. So you're a little high, but okay, fine. It can be 1200 to 1400 calories. Now, at that point, I had no idea what that meant. So I looked up average caloric intake for a guy, my age, weight, all of these things. And it was like 2000 calories. And I sat back and I thought that sure doesn't leave a lot of calories for lunch or dinner then. Huh? What? And that began a process of beginning to pay attention to calories. And as, as I would then buy things at the store, looking at what the calories are and then how much sugar and the carbs and how much sugar is added. And I'll never forget when I found out how much sugar was added to Skippy peanut butter, I was furious. I'm like, I've been eating this my whole life and they've added this much extra sugar that I didn't need. So skills, resources, knowledge, understanding how to then even look at the calories. And so that was the little journey that then helped me. And then, of course, yes, getting the treadmill, getting the gym membership, getting all of these things. Be able to then have the resources to start getting in shape, to start affecting one's diet, to start being able to then get ready to make the changes. And what I appreciate about the example you're sharing there, Daniel, is the interchange really between all three of the first steps. And usually we lay them out in the order that we state them because often that is the order that they appear. As you have awareness, then desire can be built and then you can be more aware of those skills and resources. But as you engage in gathering and looking and having those skills and resources built, it can have that effect on building desire as well. It can further add to awareness. So there is that interplay between those three, but all of it stops if we're not doing anything with it. And that's why there's that fourth key step of action. We have to not just examine and love the books on the shelf. Oh, I want to learn all these things, so I've bought all these books. And they're sitting there, aren't they beautiful? But nothing happens to get that information into our brain unless we actually open the book or we go and engage in the activity or whatever it might be. So putting it into action, setting that goal, writing it down, looking at the steps of how you're going to progress toward that, that's huge. It's starting. It's getting the inertia from nothing to moving forward, progress toward that. Yeah, and it's also not getting 15 or 20 things to do. Why not? It's what are the couple of things that are realistic, that are measurable, that you believe will actually help, that make sense to you. That's the key thing because sometimes you get the overachiever who's like, yeah, we got 2,500 things that we're going to tackle right now, and we got to do it all right now. And it's like, stop. What are the couple that make the most sense that you can focus on right now? How can you start making a difference today? How can you move the needle a little bit? What is reasonable? What is going to help overall? And what is going to get at the highest priority, the highest value add? And whether that's within your organization, within the marketplace, or at home, at a personal level. Any of these sorts of things because if you want to suddenly like lose weight or get fit or, you know, it's not like I'm going to run a marathon next week. Whoa, how can I actually start running this week? Maybe three times for 15 minutes. Specific, measurable, is it realistic? Yes. When are you going to do it? Okay, I'm going to run right before work. Or when I get home before dinner, I'm going to go. Something that makes sense. And this is where I love the idea of like piggybacking on other habits so that you can then draw in if you regularly have a habit in the morning of, you know, during doing certain things. How can you then wake up a half hour early and then plug into a reward of, oh, yeah, your coffee is then waiting once you're done half hour of walking on the treadmill. Great. Something to then build in a reason but the actions need to be specific, not overwhelming, and something you can believe in. And then the other thing I'll mention is make sure that if you don't do it once, it's not a point where you're like, okay, I'm messed up. I cannot do it anymore. I'm done. I'm out. No, no, no. You just skipped once. So do it again the next time and keep going. And it's that last part of, oh, I messed up, where we become our own enemy. And that pattern, okay, we can feel like a failure. I didn't do it. I set this big lofty goal that I was going to get up every morning and work out for 45 minutes or whatever it might be and you miss a day. And that's why we can then become -- you can have that negative cycle of where we stop and our progress goes down. Which is why the fifth step is so critical. Not only does it allow for somebody to help cheer us on, but it allows for that accountability. And that fifth step is support. We're sharing with somebody else, even if it's just one person, what our plan is, what our action is. We've described it to them and we've made that request, will you follow up with me? Will you check in? How am I doing? Allow me to give you a report on it. And if you do mess up, fine. It's not the end of the world. We're humans, not robots. That's expected. So then they're able to say, all right, well, that means you actually did it three out of four days. Well, that's three more times you would have done it if you didn't have a plan. So it's celebrating those small wins as you're moving forward, as you're looking at getting that support and that help. So that's really how the change progresses. But you have to have that last piece to really have it sustained. Somebody is going to check in on you. And building on that, I often think of the support in two ways. The first is you need that one-on-one personal interaction, somebody who cares enough about you, that trusted partner, friend, colleague, spouse, whoever it is, coach, mentor. I often say somebody who loves you enough to hug you or kick you, metaphorically, of course. But to be able to care about you and say, hey, I know you want to do this. How can I help you be able to do this? So that's the one way of support, that interpersonal. And then the other is the structural, the cultural, the societal, the policy procedure, the system. What is being reinforced? And if you go in and you're hanging out with others who are just eating nonstop and they're drinking and the calories, that's going to be a hard environment. And it's going to be not as helpful if you're trying to get in shape. There are things you can do to then recognize and be able to say, hey, these are some of the ways I need to do it. Please, on the personal level, help support because these are important things. However, this support mechanism, as we've mentioned, is one of the main reasons why actions fail. And we often will joke, regular gym goers, they love January 14th or often the second Friday of every January because that is typically when the new gym goers stop going. And the established gym goers are like, yes, I can have my old treadmill back and there aren't going to be many people around anymore. Because oftentimes it's that support. We need that on the personal level and on the broader cultural, structural level as well. So five steps, critical, and I'll just share on the personal side of it. As I was, several years ago, trying to figure out the whole calories and the exercise, I also recognized I needed to move. Stress was building up and I needed to exercise three times a week. I don't always do it, but that's been my goal for quite a long time, especially to run three times a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, at five o'clock or so. That's the best time for me to go out and run. It's on my calendar. I tell people about it. My wife knows about it. I mean, it's out there to reinforce. And I do it as much as I possibly can. It's on your calendar, so even as a company, we don't schedule things during that time. We try very much to respect that. So let me share a professional example of this process as I was coaching an individual who was a very eager new leader. She had just been put in a position to lead a team of about 300 or 400 engineers. She was the first female lead that this company had ever had of this group. Successful engineer in her own right, relatively young in her career. Got feedback from a 360 that people thought she was angry a lot, that she was angry often. And as we were talking through this, I said, "Do you mind if I share an observation?" And the observation was that when she thinks deeply, her eyebrows kind of go down at an angle. And she has this thinking face, this thinking face that gives the appearance like she's upset. Her intention is not that she's upset. I knew that knowing her, but it gives that impression. She had awareness from the 360. She expressed she wanted to be--I mean, the desire wasn't the issue there. She very much wanted to be a successful leader. She needed skills and resources to be able to alter that. And that turned out to be some time in front of the mirror, having phone conversations in the mirror so that she could watch her face and her reaction to that, and sharing it with somebody else to then be able to provide that feedback real-time during meetings if she started to have that kind of upset thinking face that she had. And over time, she was able to alter that and adjust it. So she used all of the steps. And obviously, as a coach, I was there to support her as well as the person that she'd had as sharing the plan with. But all of that was followed so that then you could really see the true desire that she had to be a really good leader for that group. And she did it for a number of years doing that. So it can be applied in so many different levels. But there aren't too many things we say on here that is potentially life-changing. But this core concept is not to even be overly dramatic. There are so many implications for it. So the five steps, as we've said it many times, awareness, desire, skills and resources, action, and support. Fantastic. Kay, Lightning Round, Peter.[MUSIC PLAYING] Here's a question for you. How can a leader, how can a manager use the five steps of personal change to help somebody on their team develop and change? That's a great question. So a leader can use these five steps of change. First, by teaching them, by sharing them as you're having one-on-one conversations. And as you give feedback, couching it in that way of, here's information I want to be able to share with you to increase some awareness. Having a conversation to help assess that desire. What are some steps we can do? Is this new information? What are some skills or resources we can point you towards to give you access to? How do we help create a very specific goal? And then what do you need from me to support you in that effort? So it helps guide some of those conversations. So this isn't deep, a secret formula, secret plan that you never want to tell anybody about. Lay it out. Keep it out in the open so you can use that to facilitate those development conversations. Okay, Daniel, question for you then is how do you help somebody who doesn't feel like they have anybody to reach out to for support? Like they're just confused on who can I really, who would really follow up with me? Yeah, that's a good one. Especially as we've talked about the five steps of personal change, support is the most critical element to be able to sustain it. And it's critical then to ask a person, all right, let's go quickly through who's your boss, who are the people on your team, who are your peers, and who are others in the organization who you actively work with? Let's map that. Let's identify who these people are. And let's go one more step. Who are the folks at home that you live with or that you see all the time? Who are the closest friends? Who are some of the folks who care most about you? Let's write that down. And what's remarkable is you start actually putting names out there. And then you can sit back and say, all right, out of these 10, 15, 20 names that you've captured, if you had to pick one person who could help support you on this specific action, who would it be? And what I find is getting specific, getting options out there, narrowing it down, that helps get the mind thinking about who they might want to leverage. And whether it is somebody end up there or it might spark somebody else, the point is to find out who might that person be, because inevitably there is that somebody out there, not to mention your own coach who can help support you as well. There's always somebody who can help support you as you're striving to then sustain personal change to achieve the business and people results that you need to achieve. Very, very well put. Well, in the spirit of the conversation we've had then is as you're listening to this, as we're speaking to our listeners now, as you're thinking, what is one thing that you can do different to improve some aspect of your job, of your life, whatever it might be, as you identify that one goal, who can you now share that goal with? What's the one thing you're going to try and do a little different and then who can you share it with? As you answer those two questions and do it, it's sure going to increase the likelihood of that change happening. Fantastic. That is the invitation and challenge we leave with all of you. Thanks for joining us on the Leadership Growth Podcast. Please like and subscribe and we'll look forward to having you join us on the next time. Take care, everyone. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague or better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit StewartLeadership.com.