Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast. What I find on a regular basis as we're getting things done is the ability to be able to ask deep questions. And when I say deep, I'm not talking about, let's dive into your philosophy or religious context. No. What is the meaning of your life?(laughing) Yeah, yeah. We're not talking about that. We're talking about a little deeper than the surface to understand what led you to make that decision. What was impactful about this? What did you learn from the experience? What would you not do again? What is a critical element that you're paying attention to right now? And what are three ways that you're managing this? What is something that you're needing to avoid or a risk that's a concern? How have you reached that conclusion? These are all deep questions that suggest that you are invested. And now it also comes with a sense of responsibility that you need to pay attention to what the other person says in response. That you need to be present, you need to be focused. And when you hear them, you need to repeat back something to acknowledge that you heard it, acknowledge that you are then doing something, that you're processing, that you're considering it, that it's a valuable piece of information. That exchange, asking of a deep question, being able to be present and attentive and making sure that you are hearing the other person. If you're able to do that in a consistent way, that is the foundation for fantastic future strong relationships. At any level, especially in the professional, but as well in the personal.(upbeat music) Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined with my great brother, Peter Stewart. And we're here to talk about all things leadership development to help grow and develop your leadership ability with fantastic tools and ideas. Today's conversation, all about how to build great, lasting, sustainable relationships. They are so key and we're going to dive into all of those. So with a first segment here, Peter, Insight of the Week.(upbeat music) I just learned something really cool.- Cool, let's hear it. It's always fun to hear something new.- That's right. And so some of our listeners might be familiar with the longest longitudinal study out there. And this study has been going on for over a hundred years and it's entitled the Study of Human Happiness. Now it has, the title's shifted over the years. It started out being the Grant Study named after a guy named Grant. But they have followed thousands of people over multiple generations. And what's interesting with all of the data that they have continually collected, there has been one predictable thing that they've been able to have discovered. And that is this, that when you have a sufficient number of quality relationships in your life, meaningful relationships in your life, by the time you're 45, you will then be by the time you're 65, happy, successful and wealthy.- That's it, that's the secret.- That is the predictor that they can accurately say.- If you have a, so let me, so this is data from a study that's been going on for at least almost a hundred years. I mean, this study has been going on a long time.- Over a hundred years, correct.- As long as you have sufficient interpersonal, a few close relationships by the time you're 45, odds are you're going to be happy and successful by the time you're 65.- Correct.- Did they specify how many?- To be able to be successful and happy, absolutely.- How many is sufficient? Like, are we talking, do you need like two or three? Do you need like, you know, a whole tribe? Do you need like, you know, what is it?- Yeah, and that's actually one of the cool things about I think how they phrase sufficient, because it can depend for each person. And for some people, two or three or four, totally sufficient. Others, a few more, but it's by that point of your life, you also have a sense of how many meaningful relationships does it for you. What does that mean? What does that look like? And what have you done to invest in these relationships, both giving and taking that reciprocity component, that building of love and trust? It also does not clarify, nor is it needed to clarify, is it personal, professional? No, it's meaningful relationships that that can help sustain you for the next 20 years as you continue to build a sense of happiness.- It's nice to hear that there's some, you know, adaptability to our personality style.'Cause I think there can be some listeners and individuals who hear that and think, I don't want to be around that many people because they're more introverted in nature. They don't require the, you know, when they're with others, it drains them. And then others saying, oh yeah, I need 40, 50 people around me all the time because I feed off of their energy. You know, I want to, they're that more extroverted nature. So the number is less important than recognizing everybody needs some relationship that's deep and personal. Maybe it's one or two. Maybe it's eight or nine or 10. You know, that doesn't matter. So it's that assessment of, all right, how are your personal relationships? Your professional relationships? How are they? How many do you have? And what are you doing to invest in that? It reminds me of, you know, Susan Pinker, that quote that we've often used as we're talking about relationships with groups, where she talks about how, you know, loneliness is just as bad as your health is like a pack a day, cigarette habit, obesity, hypertension, those sorts of things. And even I saw a headline just the other day was further confirming that, that we are social creatures. We need to have some sort of interaction with others. It's good for not only our mental health, but our physical health as well.- And we can put a link to the study in the show notes as well. And Susan Pinker, for those of you listeners who aren't as familiar with her, look her up as well. A fantastic psychology researcher who's been able to do really seminal work connecting loneliness to health and to showcase then the impact. And of course that has shown up even more during the pandemic and so forth. Anyway, and it's such a critical part of belonging to be able to build those quality relationships. So there you go. That's the Insight of the Week to foster long-term relationships and the benefits from that, especially in the middle part of one's life.- Yeah. No, it's good to know. Good to know. So it's a great insight to share. So as we now jump to our next segment of Memory Lane.(upbeat music) As we were talking before the show, we thought, you know, let's use this as an opportunity to not only share a few of our memories, but to show some of the tools that can help build these relationships with others. Give an example of one that we've used often and it's called a life milestone. In which you basically just share four or five moments in your life that help to share who you are. So we thought we could share that with you listeners. You get to know us a little bit better as people, maybe stuff that's not necessarily found in a bio. So Daniel, you want to kick it off?- Well, and before we do that, Peter, let's just tell listeners how we use this. Because oftentimes it's a fantastic way of kicking off some sort of team offsite, some sort of team assimilation effort. Even if people have been working together for a while, they don't necessarily know what really is in their past. What are significant moments? And these can be personal, they can be professional. And we often will give folks a legal size sheet of paper, have them draw a line straight down the middle, hamburger wise, instead of hot dog. Anyway, so yes, straight down.- Is that what you call the paper? Hot dog versus hamburger?- Yeah, hot dog is the long way. And anyway, so yes, landscape wise.- So portrait, hot dog, landscape hamburger.- I love it.- I think, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so you draw a line down across the center of it, and then you're able to put a few hash marks. And oftentimes we tell people, they have to identify their professional and or personal milestones only with images, not any words allowed. And so of course that begs all sorts of potential discomfort, but in a good way. So that they can illustrate what has happened in their life. And so you give them a few minutes. So yeah, I'll be happy to share some four or five milestones in my life that have been significant. And again, powerful ways of being vulnerable and being open to building the relationship with others. And then you can of course go after me here. So I'll dive in. So first milestone, I was raised, as you know, Peter, of course, I was raised in California and Oregon, primarily 14 years in California, in the Bay Area, in Fremont, California. And then we moved up to Lake Oswego, Oregon, up in the Portland area, finished up high school there. Another milestone, which I don't often share, but is significant in my life, first grade. First grade, I was really having a hard time learning how to read. It just was not comin'. It was, and I remember distinctly, I was always in the lowest reading group. It just was a struggle. And I remember my first grade teacher, he went to my mom, to our mom and said,"Daniel has brain damage.""He's will not be able to read." And my mom's like, "I don't think so." And she helped teach me how to read. And it was one of those things, like by the time I was in third grade, I actually could read. And it took me a long time, a lot of work, hats off to mom for all the work she did. And she's like, "I don't think so.""I don't have brain damage," which is helpful to know. So anyway, that was a significant milestone, but it took so long to teach me how to read. Third milestone, I served a two-year church mission up in Quebec, or Quebec for the Anglophones, but I lived up in Quebec for two years in Canada, learned Quebecois, and loved that part of the world. And then another milestone, shortly after my mission, I got married to my wonderful wife, Katie, and we will be married coming up 25 years. That's right, 25 years. Anyway, it's gone by quick. And then the last milestone I'll share is through that process of being married 25 years, I've had four kids. And they're, let's see, 23, 21, well, almost 21, 18, and 12. There you go, four kids. So those are a few life milestone points for me. And listeners, you can just imagine, as you do this with your own teams, as you do this with others, just having them kind of share some of these things, and you can dive in, you learn all sorts of things. Just did it with a senior executive team just earlier this week as well. A fantastic way of starting things off to generate more of a relationship of trust, which is what we want to keep chatting about now anyway. So Peter, what are some milestones for you?- Well, thanks for sharing yours. It's fun to hear, as, you know, obviously I joined in on many of those and remember doing that. So obviously I was born at a young age, like you. Similar-- But on Pung Ching.- But on Pung Ching.- That was clever, yeah.- I mean, obviously growing up in California, it's big wheels and tangerine trees are the memories of biking around and just having fun doing that. And then fourth grade for me was a big moment because my name is Peter, but when I was a kid, my name was Peto. You know, I couldn't say my Rs. And so fourth grade, I'd get the call from the teacher in school to go talk with the speech therapist down and it was the walk of shame as she would call me and I'd walk and everybody would say,"There goes Peto."- That's terrible, Peto.- Yeah, and that's what happened, but I had to learn, all right, this is something I need to work on, exercises I need to have so that I could eventually say my name, Peter. So that was one, fourth grade, you learn that. And then as you get older, again, I served a two-year church mission as well in England. And the big impact for me was going into so many different homes and talking to so many different people, just the observation of the wide variety of family structures, of lifestyles, of backgrounds, and just the ability to just find connection and interest with people from such far walks of life. And that was key for really what drove me to want to be a psychologist, is to understand why do people do what they do. So then a big milestone for me was finally getting my, earning my PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Kansas. And that was a major event for me to be able to kind of culminate a lot of study and then being able to put those skills to work. Along the way, big milestone, marrying my wife, Michelle. We're in our, what, our 23rd year of marriage. Just the best, best decision I ever made. And then like you, I have four kids as well, but I only have boys. So it's just boys in the household, 21, 18, and twins that are 11. So that definitely keeps things exciting as we're moving forward. So just a little bit about my background. And as Daniel was saying, it's, you learn a lot. You get these insights. And as you do this with a group, like I was just doing this, again, this week with another group, as helping to kick things off for an offsite. And our brains are wired to make connections. We're looking for those insights with each other. And if you imagine a team of seven or eight or 10 or 12 people doing this and everybody just taking a couple minutes and sharing, you're gonna hear of, oh, you played tennis in high school? Or, oh, you grew up in a military family moving around a lot. Or, oh, you had this, you know, a grandparent who passed away that was really close to you at this time. You know, this, you're looking for these potential connections with others that just enhance our relationships. So it's like laying out a big buffet of options, a relationship charcuterie board, in essence, to be able to say, oh, we have that in common.- Yeah, and I like how you're suggesting how our brain is continually trying to find connections. And what I also find is our brain also has a choice that it's continually making. And as it's hearing information, it's often then figuring out, am I curious about it? Am I appreciating the information? Am I learning about it? Am I looking at it in a neutral fashion? Is it interesting to learn? Or the other choice, which is, am I making a judgment about the information? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it going to help me? Is it going to hurt me? Do I want to keep learning more? Do I value it or not? And what is so interesting as humans is to be able to be more attentive and intentional about the choice between curiosity and judgment. Because the other part of building strong relationships, and this is where we want to keep talking for a while, is how to foster the sense of vulnerability. Because being vulnerable is one of the most important parts in being able to then create meaningful relationships and that reciprocity that is needed in both ways. And it's interesting, this vulnerability notion, and a way of thinking about it is sharing something with somebody else that they may possibly reject or critique. And when you do that, that is evidence that you are being vulnerable. Now, based upon how the other person responds might impact our own decision how much more vulnerable or not. And so it's really also important for the other person to appreciate and to approach it with a spirit of curiosity instead of automatic judgment. Because that automatic judgment will often then minimize or shut down potential opportunities for future vulnerability. So like with all of the things you just shared, Peter, any one of those milestone points, I guess I could sit back and pity you or look down upon you, or I could bring you up and I can say, oh, that's fantastic. There's all sorts of reactions and judgments, or I can simply say, thank you. That's helpful for me to know. Now, let me share in kind back to you. And that's where this successful, enduring relationship basis can often start and continue to grow.- Yeah, such good points on how we receive that information from others and the mindset that we approach it from and striving to view it more from that perspective of curiosity, as opposed to judgment. Because it does make a big difference. And as you are hearing these things and sharing it, and if you're taking this tool and we suggest, try it, use it with your teams. The key part, if you're trying to do this, is you don't dictate what life milestones people choose. You don't force them, you don't make them do certain ones. It's about what people are comfortable sharing. So you lay it out of, okay, you've lived your life. You get to choose what are four or five or six events that you're comfortable sharing with this group that lets us learn a little bit more about you. We all may have those deep, dark periods in our life that we might not wanna talk about. We might not feel comfortable sharing at this moment. That's fine, you don't have to share those. But start with something a little more shallow and maybe over time, your trust in being more vulnerable with these others may grow.- And so that's one tool. And so what we wanna do is keep talking about what are other ways of being able to build and foster effective relationships? And as we talk through the willingness to be vulnerable and the willingness to then respond with a sense of curiosity and not judgment. Now, we've been kind of talking about the personal side. And with the blurring of the personal and the professional, especially over these years, last few years of introducing the virtual and hybrid workspace so much more prominently, this intersection of personal and professional is critical as leaders are effectively able to get to know people and lead effectively, as well as managing their own boundaries and showing up as their best self each day. So it's important to consider both. Peter, switch over to the professional side. What are things that can be done in a professional setting or give some examples perhaps. What do you think about what can be done on the professional side to be able to then balance this critique or judgment versus curiosity when we gotta get stuff done? How do you balance that?- Oh, it is, it's thinking about here we've got our team meeting and we've got our 45 minutes or a half hour, maybe it's an hour, whatever it is. And a big agenda to get through all of it. Are we carving out and valuing those five minutes in the beginning to get to know each other a little bit better? Do we find that that is helpful? Are we willing to experiment and give some time to that? Because I believe you will find that it does pay dividends beyond the productivity of the tasks that you might be able to accomplish. So how do you do this? Yeah, maybe you don't have time every week to go on and everybody share about their life. You're not gonna get stuff done. So maybe you divide it up and all right, we're gonna have just a little spotlight on one member of the team for a couple minutes each week. And maybe either one option is they can do like a this is me slide, especially if it's virtual, it's easier to share that way. Or if you're all gathered in the same conference room to share up and it's just one slide that may have a few pictures. It might highlight here's some hobbies I like to do or here's a little bit about my family or some friends that I like to hang out with. And you could keep that, you could share the personal. It also could just be a history of their professional experience. Like here's some jobs I've had. Here was my first job. Here's my favorite manager. Here's a success I feel I wanna share that I've had professionally. So depending on how much the team's willing to go into that personal versus professional, you can pivot each way. But just short little couple minutes spotlighting and over time, you're really gonna get to know your team a little bit better and still obviously get done the work you gotta get done'cause you can't forget that. So that's one idea. What else would you add Daniel?- So I wanna jump in and say, what if a listener is listening right now and saying, yeah, this is all nice and stuff, but it's kind of making me gag. I mean, how much of this stuff do you really need to do and how often? And to a certain degree, I completely agree because this is sort of stuff that does not need to be done every day. You know, it can be built on. And so I'm wondering in the course of getting work done, there are ways that can then foster and build relationships that are in addition to this kind of initial opening up in some ways, 'cause then the opening up will be able to happen. What I find on a regular basis as we're getting things done is the ability to be able to ask deep questions. And when I say deep, I'm not talking about, let's dive into your philosophy or religious context. No. - What is the meaning of your life? - It's really...(laughing) Yeah, yeah, we're not talking about that. We're talking about a little deeper than the surface to understand what led you to make that decision. What was impactful about this? What did you learn from the experience? What would you not do again? What is a critical element that you're paying attention to right now? And what are three ways that you're managing this? What is something that you're needing to avoid or a risk that's a concern? How have you reached that conclusion? These are all deep questions that suggest that you are invested, and now it also comes with a sense of responsibility that you need to pay attention to what the other person says in response, that you need to be present, you need to be focused. And when you hear them, you need to repeat back something to acknowledge that you heard it, acknowledge that you are then doing something, that you're processing, that you're considering it, that it's a valuable piece of information. That exchange, asking of a deep question, being able to be present and attentive and making sure that you are hearing the other person. If you're able to do that in a consistent way, that is the foundation for fantastic future strong relationships at any level, especially in the professional, but as well in the personal.- 'Cause fundamental to what you're suggesting is that you care about that person. You care about their life. You care about what their thoughts, you care about what they're experiencing. And when you ask those deeper questions and listen, it demonstrates that. It's not just, I'm asking this question to check the box so that then we can get to what we really need to do. So our intention behind it matters. Now, the time in which we spend on that can vary. And it varies by team dynamic, by personality, by what others need. Others, it can be quite quick. Sometime, yeah, maybe they're going to want to dive into a deeper conversation. And if you start that, but there's not the time to finish it, then show the interest to say, hey, I want to hear more about this. This is really interesting. Let's go grab a cup of coffee, or can we meet for lunch and continue this conversation? So I think it's the intention behind the questions and recognizing the people on your team are not just tools for your productivity and efficiency. They're other humans who have lives and needs, and your life can be enhanced as you get to know them. You know, you're reminding me of a boss I had many years ago and she was one of the best bosses I've ever had. And one of the things she did really well was she would listen. She would ask really smart, intelligent, deep questions and shut up. And she would let me talk, and she would let me dive into my concerns or my recommendations or my solutions, and she would be very thoughtful as she would listen. And I would bet, Peter, if you and I thought of people who we've met and really connected with over the years, and all listeners as you're hearing this, do this thought exercise as well, who have you really connected with over the years? And I would bet anything that they have exhibited the ability to ask really good questions, as well as the ability to listen, to shut up, to be present, to be focused. And you know that they are with you. And it's that beautiful connection that then fosters these relationships. And it goes a little bit farther than simply a strategic, transactional type of relationship that I need you and you need me, okay, fine. And we get it done. That's one level. Those can be helpful, and over time, they can then foster into something deeper, perhaps. However, building those stronger relationships often are getting at that deeper aspect. And it takes some effort, especially when we're all going 100 miles an hour with emails and Zoom calls or team calls, and we're needing to make judgments all the time. But to pause and to really appreciate and listen and learn.- Yeah. Oh, it's well put. So we've been talking about initially a tool or a technique to help build relationships, sharing a life milestone exercise is one. We've talked about the need to approach our relationships from a perspective of curiosity, trying to suspend judgment as much as we can. Being able to look at in the workplace, recognizing that there is a need for it, and that that need is going to be variable based on the personalities of your team, how far along you are, are you newly formed? Have you been working together for a long time? But recognizing you have to spend a little time with the interpersonal development. And a key way to do that is to ask deep questions and focus and actively listen to what is being said. Truly listen to do it. All really good tips. As we talk about this further, let's just share a couple other tools and ideas and ways in which we can build relationships with others. Now, obviously one is having these one-on-one interactions. You know, when it's outside of a team or a group setting, you know, if it's a manager, employee situation, ask them, you know, a little bit about lives. You know, share both. If you're the manager, share a little bit about yours and so forth. So those one-on-ones. What other ways in which we can build these relationships? Any other suggestions, tips, tools, Daniel?- Yeah, the other thing I was going to mention is managing our reactions. So often the reactions that we have will then help foster how the other person will respond. And on that one hand, it's kind of a duh, sure. However, it can be incredibly hard, especially when it's a stressful situation, there's conflict in some way, we have been triggered perhaps, and how we react is going to create that environment or not where we're able to then connect, not only as humans, but also to be able to get things done. And so a handy rule of thumb is to be able to stop when before you react and before you want to say something and say a few questions to yourself. One, do I need to say this? There might be a situation and you want it before you say something. You might be thinking of something and maybe it's a little charged and may not whatever it is, and you want to pause and ask yourself, do I need to say this? The next question, can this be said by someone else? Because maybe you're not the right messenger, maybe you're not the best person and that's okay. Who else should be able to say that or could, and it would be better. And the third question is, does this need to be said now? Because so often the timing, the timing may not be right. And frankly, maybe sometimes what we want to say in the moment is something we should never end up saying anyway. It's not helpful. It's so emotionally charged. It's not considerate of the other person. It's not considerate of us. It's not showing up as our best self. So this little self-check process, should I say this? Should somebody else say it? Or should I not even say it at all? Such a powerful way to be able to keep in mind as we're fostering effective and building effective relationships with others.- Oh, such good advice for us to pay attention to so that we do not inadvertently damage the relationships that we are trying to build. Because relationships, there's, in essence, you could use the analogy of an account, you know, with credits and debits. With every relationship, we make deposits into that trust account by the actions we take, the things we say, the interest we show and we display. We make deposits into that. When we do behaviors that are not going to be engaging, they're not supportive, they're critical, we're making deposits out of that account on that relationship. And it's always monitoring that and looking at it. One individual that I worked with in the past, and I've always respected the fact that he does this, is he'll ask you this question about your life and he'll listen. And he looks deeply into your eyes. You know, it's like he just, you know he is there, like paying attention completely. But then it's not only for that conversation, you'll interact with him a week or two or a month later, and guess what he'll do? He'll ask you about that conversation you just had, or you shared about, you know, a family member was sick, or you happen to be going on this vacation or whatever it is. He remembers and asks about it. And the power of that interaction of the follow-up, it's like, wow, not only were you paying attention to me while we had that conversation, but you've now been thinking about 18 million other things in the time since. But yet you recalled this and cared enough to ask me how it was going. Oh, that's powerful. That really is.- Oh, that's great. Okay, Peter, Lightning Round. You ready? - Sure.(upbeat music)- Here's the question. So if you're a manager, what's the one thing you should do to build a great relationship with members of your team? What would you say?- The one thing for a manager to do to build great relationships with their team is to make sure you have time to ask them about their life. Ask those questions and probe. Probe probably isn't the best word, but ask questions at the depth where they are comfortable. So start off more superficial. And as time goes on and they're comfortable sharing more, it's where you ask more open-ended questions so that it doesn't put them on the spot, they get defensive. But take that time one-on-one as you're meeting with them and talking about their performance, development goals, and other things. Learn about their life. Because as they know you care, then here's the real kicker. They're actually going to be more willing to share their needs and when they make mistakes. Because they are feeling like they can trust you. So that's a powerful part of taking the time to really ask about their life.- Yeah, it's a good one, especially to create that environment of trust, which ultimately is at the foundation.- Yeah, that's huge. So Daniel, what are recommendations of how to build relationships in the workplace from a remote setting? Where you don't have the luxury of the water cooler conversation or seeing people every day.- Yeah, and that's a good question. And the main focus to manage effectively and build effective relationships in a remote setting is being intentional. Whenever you're in a remote or hybrid situation, it has to be intentional because it's too often forgotten. It slips by the wayside. You become really transactional because you can get on a Teams call or a Zoom call or a WebEx call and then you're off and it's gone. You need to be intentional about finding opportunities before a meeting. As you're just starting a meeting, afterwards, picking up the phone. To be able to spend time asking how people are doing, what concerns, what challenges, how they're overcoming problems, and to listen to them and to be intentional about it. And whether that means actually going through your calendar and blocking off times, five minutes here, 10 minutes here, and making sure everybody on your team is getting time and attention, FaceTime, phone time, Teams time, whatever it might be so that you can have that time that's possibly a little unstructured, more ad hoc. And that's critical in managing a more hybrid or remote situation, to be intentional about the conversations that you have.'Cause otherwise it's easy to forget that and forget people in some ways.- Oh, that's great advice. Great advice. And we've spent time talking about how we build these relationships with members of our teams and others we're working with. Let me share one other tip that a leader that I've worked with for the past several years shared that I love. She has had a goal to meet five people every month, five new people every month. And she's done this for many, many years. And you think about the impact that has on expanding the relationship she has, her network. It's just going out of her way to get to know others. And I thought that's a very tangible, measurable goal to build those relationships. So you can have that goal of breadth to be able to expand who you know at work or wherever. And then you can also have that goal of depth within your teams. And I think it's appropriate to look at it from both angles.- Yeah. And it's a measurable thing to be able to do, to be able to set out. Okay, Peter, it's been another great episode. Fantastic. Thank you listeners for joining us as we're all striving to build quality, sustainable relationships, both on the personal and how it works while on the professional side. Thanks for joining us for another episode of Leadership Growth Podcast. Please like and subscribe for future episodes and best of luck as you continue to build your leadership capability each day. All the best. Take care, everyone. If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague or better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.