Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast. Where is your locus of control? Where is your power that you believe you have? And how much responsibility can you take for it? Oftentimes we can kind of go into two different mindsets. One is more of the passive. Sometimes it's termed the victim. Or it's essentially assuming that the ability to control things is outside of you. And it's they. They did this to me. It's their problem. And it's outside of you. Versus the other way of thinking about something is, no, no, no. I have a level of power and control and influence. I wanna recognize it. I wanna understand it. And I wanna utilize it. And that does not mean that I'm gonna always make the best or perfect choice. But I wanna play. I wanna be in the arena, as it's often described. I want to be able to be active. I wanna make a difference. I wanna keep trying. And it's often in that effort to keep trying, that is where the greater level of not only respect and appreciation and admiration comes, it's where progress can be made.(upbeat music) Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast, where we talk about great tools, ideas, and tips to help you continue to elevate your leadership ability. I'm Daniel Stewart, joined with my brother Peter Stewart. We're your hosts. And we're excited to dive into the episode here today. So as we often do, we wanna start with an Insight of the Week, something interesting, profound. Well, profound might be overstating, but it's something interesting here, Peter.(upbeat music) As we were chatting before the podcast, you came across with a client of yours, something that was particularly impressive in terms of a productivity hack. Tell us about that. Sure, yeah, I think it is, it's a productivity hack. It was a great idea as I was having a coaching session with a group as they've been assigned to with accountability partners to help support each other in their action plan. And the idea that this partnership came up with is that they set a meeting each week with each other. So it's for an hour long. And the meeting is for them to get things done. So at the start of the meeting, they both report to each other what they're gonna do for this next hour. And so this is a team's meeting. And then after they've shared what they're gonna do, they go on mute, they turn their camera off, but they keep the meeting going so that nobody can interrupt them. And they just plug away. They just dive into what they're trying to get done for the next 55 minutes. And then before the end of the hour, they get back on the call and report their progress, report what they were able to do. And so they found it just to be tremendously helpful to get a lot done. It's so helpful that they're now considering doing it twice a week. And I thought, what a great idea, what a great way to leverage, all right, the systems that we're utilizing, the environment of constant instant message, chat, email, ping, whatever. But oh, nope, they're in a meeting, so people don't disturb them. And they're just heads down getting stuff done. I loved it. I thought it was a great hack.- It's such a clever idea. So say, Peter, you and I are accountability partners. We're trying to help both of us stay focused. So we could book an hour. It looks busy to everybody else. We simply say hi, and then get off so that we can just do individual work and then check in at the end of the hour with each of us to be able to say, hey, did you do the work that you needed to get done? So there's some reinforcement and play time, work time to be able to then dive in and do it.- Correct. Yeah, the majority of that scheduled time is just to get stuff done. You're working on a task, maybe it's a report you're trying to generate, something you're trying to plan. It's that focused, uninterrupted time, which becomes one of the most precious commodities we have'cause it's so rare.- Yeah, what I also like is it combines, or we could combine this idea as one of the best productivity hacks that I know of is every day, start with the most important thing, whatever that is, and that might be challenging to even figure out, so pick a one, most important thing, something that is high value add, and if you combine that with what you were just suggesting, say like eight o'clock or 7.30, 8.30, whenever you start the day, quick call, one minute, and then you do the most important thing that you need to focus on for that day, and then you check in at the end of the hour. Anyway, it's just such a great idea to make sure you're getting stuff done that adds the greatest value.- Yeah, and the power of support because you know how easy it is to get distracted. Something might pop up on your phone or something else, but you know at the end of this hour, you're gonna have to report on what you got done, and that accountability is such a strong driver. So it's leveraging our natural tendency. We don't wanna disappoint somebody. We wanna be able to get a good report. Hey, I was able to crank this out. I got all this done. So use it to your advantage.- I like it, I like it. So listeners, everyone who's listening in today, try it. Test it out. Pick a trusted colleague, somebody who can help support you. Try it for a week or two. Let us know how it goes. Write it in the notes here below. That'd be great. Okay, Peter, Memory Lane time.(upbeat music) And as we were talking through this, you brought up a great point of as we were kids and we'd go into dad's office, you could see evidence all over his office of the kinds of clients he worked with, the kinds of work he did, and we were always trying to figure out what exactly it was, but he was very open about it. And I distinctly remember going in and seeing a space shuttle, for example, or an SR-71 because he worked with NASA for so many years and with Lockheed and so many defense contractors. And so we got a sense of that and he was very, very open about sharing some of the fun clients. We didn't always necessarily know when we were younger what he did, but we learned a little bit more. But those are some memories that I had and always enjoyed. And he has a lot of those models still today.- Oh, very much so. There are airplanes all over sitting on his bookcase or coins he might've gotten from people he's working with in the military or other little knickknacks and swag, you could say for various places he'd go. And it was just him wanting to bring his life, kind of open it up a little bit for us to be aware. And as we look over time, there are a few offices he had which were out of the house, and then there are times in which he was working out of the home. And in either situation, it was come in and just explore and see a little bit more of what dad's life is. Because there's also a part when he went to the office and went to work, we also thought he was going to the airport because that's where he was getting ready to go fly away somewhere else as he'd check in. And he was really good at calling at night so he could chat. But it made me stop to think, okay, am I allowing my kids, my family to know about what does the work life look like for me? Am I open in sharing that?'Cause people care, they want to know.- Yeah, it's a great point. That was definitely something dad did a great job of, which was sharing his experiences, who he worked with, and very open as we ask questions. And the point you mentioned around the airport, it was the normal thing that when dad was working, that meant he was gone. And so, some people go to work in the office in the morning and come home at night. He was like, no, we got to take him to the airport and he'll be back in three or four or five days. And that was his office in some ways, as he was, I just did air quotes for people who are listening, his office in some ways, because that's the life of a consultant. Anyway, that was the normal life, working life, as we explored it and grew up with for sure.- And him wanting to share the stories as he came back and say, this is what I was doing this week, or these are the people I was interacting with, and friendships you make, or the funny stories, just things that happen. So, that's just brings some fun memories.- I love it. All right, onto the topic at hand for today. And this is a fun topic. The topic is based on a story called The Three Envelopes. And we have found this Three Envelopes story to be one of the most popular videos that we have on our website. And so we want to talk about this and offer some additional commentary because it clearly strikes a nerve with many folks. And it's in some ways kind of a controversial story itself. It makes you both chuckle and shake your head at the same time. And so let me share this story. I'll share the story, then we can kind of talk through it. So, the story goes that there is a new CEO who was just named, starting off with an organization. And on the first day that he joined the organization, he went up to the top floor, as is often the case, in some of these more traditional organizations, and walks into his office. And on the way out is the old CEO. And the old CEO is just kind of leaving, or he had to get something else. And as they briefly, it was kind of an awkward moment, but as they briefly walked past each other, the old CEO hands the new CEO three envelopes, and says, "Here you go. Look at these later." And the CEO's like, "Okay, fine," but you know it's the old CEO, he's not gonna talk to him for very long, and kept on talking to other people, and the old CEO left. The new CEO put the envelopes in his pocket, forgot about them, and at the end of the day, was about to go home and thought,"Oh, what are these envelopes? Oh, that's right." Well, he didn't really have time to open them. And he just put them in the bottom drawer of his desk. And really forgot about them. Went on about his business, trying to build a new team, get his organization all ready to go. Well, about five, six months later, things were not going very well. Their stock wasn't performing very well, they were having some challenges on the team, they were having some internal process aspects, supply chain challenge, I mean, lots of challenges. And it was late at night one night, and he was like, "I don't know what to do." And then he remembered."Wait a minute, I had those three envelopes, that previous CEO, I wonder what those were?" And he remembered, he's like, bottom drawer, and he opens up, and he sees they're numbered. And he says, "Open me first," on the first one. He's like, "Okay." He opens this up, and all it says inside this envelope was "blame the previous CEO." And he's like, "Well, that's actually a great idea. That'll buy me a lot of time. That's what I should start to do. I should blame the previous CEO for all of these problems,'cause I didn't cause them." No, and so, sure enough, he went out the next day and started saying, "You know what? This is all because of what happened under the previous person's watch." And that's what happened. And that just kept going for months. And then about five or six months later, it just wasn't working anymore, because it was kind of too far past the point that you could really blame the previous CEO. So late one night, he was struggling, and he thought, "Wait a minute, there's a second envelope. What's in the second envelope?" And he opens up the second envelope, and it says one word, "reorg." In other words, reorganize things. And he's like, "That's it. That's brilliant. I need to reorganize, because that will solve all of my problems." So he went out the next day, started reorganizing his team, and started reorganizing the different functions. And he started going a six to 12-month effort to reorganize the entire company and restructure it. And then about a year later, things weren't going too well. The restructure really hadn't landed in the right place. And he was sitting by himself late at night, and he realized there was a third envelope. He opened it up, and all it said was,"Write another three envelopes." And he sat back, and he knew he was done. And he knew the pattern that had just been repeated. So that's the story. And it's fascinating, 'cause I've heard this in a few different ways over the years. And as I share this with groups, as I mentioned, it's both, it kind of engenders some chuckling or smiles, and yet at the same time, it's deeply depressing and cynical and makes you just wanna shake your head. And so as we saw how often this is downloaded as a video and how popular this is from our website, we wanted to talk about this, because there are realities that are associated with this story, and yet there are also ways that we can avoid these mistakes and avoid the mindset and frame of reference that leads to thinking that these envelope messages are actually right, because they aren't. And that's what I wanna emphasize. We want to avoid those messages because they are not helpful. They are the opposite. So, Peter, now that I've kind of shared this, start us off with some of your commentary. What are your thoughts and reactions to this story? Yeah, I think one of the first is that realizing why this resonates with so many, it's 'cause we've seen it. We've observed it. Whether we've been a leader that's been a part of a team that's gone through it, we've been a part of an organization that we've watched this. And this happens not just in business organizations. You can watch this in so many different aspects of life, politics and other things. It's this pattern. And so I think it really does get at the core of, wow, this happens, but it doesn't help. So yeah, we laugh at human nature. We laugh at the cycle being repeated, but it's like, what can we do to break that cycle? So I think that's what's profound about the story. So as we look at that first one and this concept of blame, and what is the appeal of blame? The appeal to blame somebody else for what's going on. And I think as we look just internally, what does that blame do? If we're the individual trying to blame the circumstances on somebody else, it can give that perception that, oh, we are now free from responsibility. It's not our fault. How many people love to say, it's my fault? I am the reason why this bad thing happened. I mean, it's a hard thing for most any honest person to state, 'cause there's an ownership and responsibility, but oh, it's powerful when a leader or a team member or somebody actually is able to make that statement saying, I own it, it's on me, as opposed to looking for somebody to blame.- It also builds on this whole notion of understanding where is your locus of control? Where is your power that you believe you have? And how much responsibility can you take for it? Oftentimes we can kind of go into two different mindsets. One is more of the passive. Sometimes it's termed the victim, or it's essentially assuming that the ability to control things is outside of you. And it's they, they did this to me. It's their problem. And it's outside of you, versus the other way of thinking about something is, no, no, no, I have a level of power and control and influence. I wanna recognize it. I wanna understand it. And I wanna utilize it. And that does not mean that I'm gonna always make the best or perfect choice, but I wanna play. I wanna be in the arena, as it's often described. I want to be able to be active. I wanna make a difference. I wanna keep trying. And it's often in that effort to keep trying, that is where the greater level of not only respect and appreciation and admiration comes, it's where progress can be made. And it's challenging to actually, I'll say fight, but we're not physically fighting. We're not even meant, but it is a struggle. It is meant to be able to then move. And it's in some ways easy to say they. He or she, they did it. They did it, instead of no, no, no. We're all part of this. Let's recognize our part. And more importantly, let's keep moving forward together. And that's something else blame does, is it begins to separate people instead of uniting. And so instead of the somewhat easy way of that new CEO saying, yeah, I'm gonna blame the previous one. And we see this play out all the time. Politicians, new athletic coaches, corporate leaders. Yes, it's an easy thing to do. However, it does not necessarily position you with the level of power that you have to work with others to accomplish good things.- Yeah. And how easy it is for us to blame when it's the negative situation. To put, as you're talking about that locus of control, to position it on the external factors when things are going bad. But then how eager we are when things are going good to put it on, oh, I caused that. You know, that was because of me. That was stuff I did. And so there's that differentiation, that bias toward the externalizing the negative, internalizing the positive. And that's not really truly being authentic to life, to ourselves. And if we flipped that script, oh, that's when you start to gain willing followers, which is one definition of leadership. I think it was Warren Blank, one of my favorite quotes, you know, "Leadership is the art of gaining willing followers." And when you flip that script of actually internalizing the negative, it's on me, externalizing the positive, it's on all of you. It's all because of you. Oh, there's power in that formulation, in that flip.- Yeah, I love it 'cause it just continues to reinforce the shifting to the we versus the they, and it builds the camaraderie. So let's talk for a second about this second envelope, because the second envelope, reorg, you know, yes, blame, and there's a temptation to do that. There's a temptation to assume that all the great stuff is from us and all the bad stuff is from somebody else. But then we get into this second temptation, which is to use a leader's power to what we often call boxology, moving the boxes and the sticks on an org chart around. And it's one of those representations of power that leaders have, which is to restructure. However, moving boxes and sticks on an org chart is not sufficient. It is not sufficient. And there's a whole suite of additional work, hard work, that needs to be paid attention to around people and empowerment and change management and communication and process redesign and decision-making rights that need to be clarified on and on, instead of simply moving around people and just saying, all right, go to it.- You should run through that list again,'cause you just rattled off so many other things that have to be considered to be taken into account as these reorganizations, restructures are being driven. And fundamentally, it's helping to understand what is the why behind a potential restructure? What is the strategic rationale? What is the reason? What is the objective we're trying to accomplish by this restructuring? And even before we start getting to shifting around boxes, looking at what are the processes? What are the systems? What are the things we need to have? What are the people we need to have before we just start moving things around? So all these factors to look at, but it's jumping back to that core element of how are we using the power that we have? And are we using it to help us feel better, to help us feel more confident, and to help convince others that we have the power? Or are we using the power to then be able to bring together the resources, to harness, to gather, to bring the folks together, to be able to come up with a better solution? And ultimately, that's what we're describing. It's not boxology. Hmm, I'm gonna sit at night in my cabin with my feet up on my chair, and I'm going to say, "You go here, and you go there,"and this is what happens." No, it's a very complicated process because of all the ripple effects and the people involved. And whoa, lo and behold, you as leader might not actually know absolutely everything that's going on. And that's okay. You're not expected to know everything that's going on. But until you actually tap into the benefits, or the skills and talents and perspectives of others, you're gonna be living in your own power-isolated bubble. Right, and let's be clear that restructuring can often be needed. Oh, great. But the point is to make sure it's done in a thoughtful way, and with the follow-up that's needed to be able to make sure that the new people in the new roles are set up for long-term success. And it's not just a play for short-term gain, or a play to kind of confuse and obscure what really is going on, which is often a misalignment around talent and strategy and process. To be able to then meet the client needs. These are the deeper challenging conversations to be able to make strategic choices. And to make hard choices, that is where it often comes down to. So as we do organization design work, anytime a CEO comes to us and says,"Hey, I wanna reorganize. I'm not sure that either the people are right, or we're heading in the right direction, or I don't have as much confidence." These are all legitimate reasons to consider. The point is then to identify, are you gonna just do this by yourself? How are you gonna involve others? What's the degree of commitment that you want to achieve with others, so that they can have a level of buy-in? I often will think, and maybe this deserves another conversation, I will use this kind of change equation to be able to help manage a lot of this, because you can come up with all sorts of great ideas, a technically good solution, or an organizational structure that looks, just that's fantastic. But the other part of that equation is the buy-in. And if people hate it, they don't agree with it, or they don't understand it, they don't know how to work within it, I don't care how amazing the reorganization is, it is likely not going to work, or at least it's gonna take a long time before it starts to show benefit. So you need both of these to be able to then equate an accurate change, sustainable progress moving forward, especially as you restructure. So we often will start with identifying what's the design criteria. What's the criteria by which you need to reorganize? And there's probably some very good clear criteria, and it's making sure not just identifying it, but making sure that others who are in key leadership roles, they buy into it, they can agree with it, they can support it. And then it's having deep conversations around the intended and unintended, possible unintended consequences that may come from restructuring. Because there's all sorts of things that can then come about. And how do we keep learning? And how do we keep growing? Which goes back to that first envelope, or rather the opposite of the first envelope, is recognizing that we're not gonna be focusing on blaming. We're gonna be focusing on learning, and taking responsibility, and continuing to move things forward. That, that's gonna get people far farther than the blaming or reorganizing by some individual leader that is just kind of broadcast and obscures some of the real challenges in the organization.- Yeah, it's really, it's true. And let me share an observation I've had as well as I've talked with leaders, as they will bring up this concept of a restructure. And we'll start to look at what the present structure is.'Cause it's always a good place to start from. All right, what is the current situation? And why has it been that way? And as you start to, inevitably, there are these kind of offshoots to an organizational structure, which were a result of somebody's avoidance of a crucial conversation. They were unwilling to have that hard conversation to be able to say,"Actually, this person shouldn't be here." Or, "These two people just couldn't get along,"so then we had to move something over." So there was a, it's the tail wagging the dog for those sorts of changes. And then what happens is that structure sticks in place even after people have left and gone. It's like, why is this division over here by itself when it actually should be over under here? And you see some of the rationale for why those changes happen. And it's looking at ourselves as a leader, why are we making this move? And is a movement of structure really the answer, or is it really getting in and having a person-based conversation?- Thank you for bringing this up, 'cause you're spot on. And too often the restructuring is meant to kind of obscure or avoid the real performance challenges and the direct performance conversations that need to happen. And so that's one of the first questions any organization approaches us saying,"Hey, please help with reorganization." And we will often ask,"How much of it is due to performance challenges? And what have you said to the specific people? And how have you set clear expectations? How have you supported them in their development? How have you provided the resources and skills and development and training? What does this mean? What does this look like?" Just to make sure that it's not just to cover up performance, it is a much bigger issue as well. So to be able to have direct conversations, unpleasant as they might be, but that is the job of a great leader, to have a direct conversation, future-focused, learning from the past, but future-focused, to be able to then help align, clarify expectations, to move things forward, and then to make changes as needed. Absolutely. And sometimes those changes, they do not need a full reorganization or even a partial one. They may just need to adapt and adjust the person to fit in a better role.- Yeah, it's focused on the people, making sure our motivation's behind it.- Makes sense, yeah. So we've talked about the two envelopes. The first two, talked about the need to blame, how that is a myth of leadership, try and avoid the blame. Restructure, it is a tool to be leveraged, but it needs to be utilized appropriately with the right process, the right people involved, and with the right motivation and strategy identified. The third letter, write new letters. More of a joke on the exit, but any commentary thought on the third letter? Is it, well, we've given up, it's inevitable, somebody else is going to now take the reins?- And what I would say is, if we're able to do the opposite of those first two letters, then there should not be a third letter.- The goal is to avoid a third letter. I wanna, we wanna avoid the third letter. We wanna avoid it. Sometimes it gets to the point where, you know, I'm not the right person, and maybe you got it, but no, you wanna have direct conversations. You wanna stand up and show responsibility and courage and stay in the struggle. That is what's key. And so we, I guess this is the main point of all of this. We wanna make sure the third letter is never written, because we wanna break the pattern. We wanna break the pattern that can sometimes be an easy temptation, which is to blame and to utilize your power as a leader to restructure and to shift things around, as opposed to having the hard conversations with yourself and with others to move things forward. That, that is what we, that's the idea we wanna continue to emphasize. Peter, what would you add onto that?- That's the moral of the story. That's the core issue. I also wanna make it very clear that the tale, as we told it, is about the story of a CEO. But this tale can be applied to all leaders at any level. You become a first-line manager, you become a general manager, you become vice president. Whatever level you're at, where you have people managing responsibilities, you can blame your predecessor and you can look to reorganize your team. They are very appealing options. So this isn't just talking about those in the C-suite. I think we can learn that principle and it applies to all leaders. So just to make that application quite clear.- Yeah, love it. Okay, Lightning Round as we're wrapping up here.(upbeat music) As we've talked about The Three Envelopes. So Peter, as people hear this story of The Three Envelopes, what is the main takeaway from this story that they need to remember?- The people, everybody needs to remember as they hear this story, that one, they're human and that these are the natural ways to deflect responsibility. Why? Because we're trying to protect ourselves. Look for ways to blame others, look for ways to blame or alter the system or throw our power in a way that it's able to make us look better. And so it takes that conscious effort to fight those, to be able to own it. And as I said earlier in the day, when we are able to internalize the blame for the negative things and we're able to externalize the praise for the positive, that's one of the best things we can do as a leader. So Daniel, Lightning Round, as organizations are looking to restructure, what is the one thing they have to do to make sure they have a successful restructure effort?- Great question. The main focus to have an effective restructuring is to make sure you're restructuring around the work and not the people. And that is one of the biggest traps that we can fall into. We have this temptation to look at all of the people and to then create jobs to fit them. However, we want to start with what is the nature of the work? Where is the value being added? What is the customer or client benefiting the most? And then work backwards and organizing the process and the workflow, and then the structure around that. And then you can identify the people to fit well within those areas. So the biggest guidance there is to organize around the nature of the work and not as much around the people, first and foremost.- Well, this has been a great conversation on these three envelopes as we're wrapping up. I hope as you're listening, you're thinking what's that one thing you're going to do different based on this? How can you be a better leader and how can you avoid some of these myths we've been discussing?- Fantastic. Well, Peter, another great Leadership Growth Podcast. Always fun to chat. Listeners, please go on it, like and subscribe. And we look forward to having you join us in a future podcast where we talk about tips and tools to help elevate all of our abilities to be the best leaders that we can. Take care, everyone. Bye.- If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague or better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.