Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast. How much of the responsibility of assimilation rests on the employee to figure out on their own, and how much of it rests on their manager or the organization to help support? And it's like it's this negotiating back and forth, often not open negotiation, but it's these expectations. And sometimes it can be the manager or the organization expecting the employee to figure it out quickly. And in fact, it is evidence of the right hire the faster they can figure it out, which to a certain degree may be very accurate. The time to proficiency can fluctuate and change, but the expectation is they should be able to ramp up rapidly and figure things out. While that can be an indicator of somebody who is a quick study and can have some existing skills, the challenge is there can be an over-reliance and expectation that the employee owns all of that or the great majority. When in fact, if a good assimilation needs to happen, the organization needs to be very clear, just as you're saying at the organization level and at the team and role level, particularly at the team and role level, and what we consistently find is organizations that pay attention at the team and role level and are clear about that path, especially the first 90 days, it can increase retention dramatically.[MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined with my wonderful brother, Peter, Peter Stewart, and we're excited to be here with you for another episode as we talk about tools and ideas to help you elevate and strengthen your ability to lead others. All right, so let's start off with an Insight of the Week.[MUSIC PLAYING] Peter, do you mind if I share something I learned at a conference last week that just really stood out to me? Sure, that'd be great to hear, and you're very kind to call me your wonderful brother. That's right. You're wonderful as well. Gosh, this is-- Heartwarming. Heartwarming and sweet, and people are saying, get on with it. OK, so anyway-- It was good, yeah, because we were both at conferences this week, at different ones, so it's fun to hear what we learned. So yeah, what was an insight that stood out to you? Yeah, something-- you love the kind of side comments that some of these presenters provide. One of them was a French proverb, a French saying. And the French saying goes like this. You cannot sweep the stairs by starting with the first step. And I heard that, and I'm like, I'm picturing stairs. And we have some stairs going down to our basement. And if I'm starting to sweep the first step, I'll get the first step clean. But the second I go to the second step, all of the debris is going to eventually start getting down to the first step again, and I'll have to do the first step all over again. And so what I enjoyed about this was the reminder, the reminder that you got to start at the top. You got to start at the top. You got to align. You got to clean. You got to organize it, because it all flows down from there. And whether that's in a team or organization, clarifying the purpose, clarifying the alignment, clarifying what is going on with the top, however that's defined in organization. And once that's done, then you can properly align and clean and organize the rest of the stairs. So there you go. I just found that amid many of the great nuggets, that was something that stuck out in my mind. It's always interesting what it is that sticks out when you attend conferences and those things that linger in those thoughts. And that's a great thought. I think it's also important to clarify, the first step is as you're walking up steps. Yeah. If you're at the main floor and going down to your basement, sweeping the first step, that's actually a good place to start. Correct. Yes. Thank you. It's good. Your perspective matters. Somebody is like, what the heck? Why would you start with the first step going down? No, it's looking up. Yes. Looking up. Yeah. So from that perspective within an organization, within a team, so much just falls. It's that waterfall effect that we talk about, and the influence. So yeah, you can't just start to take care of things at the bottom when there's still a big mess at the top. Yeah. And I will also admit, I'm partial to things that are French. I lived in Quebec for two years, served a two-year church mission there, learned Quebecois, a little piece of Europe in North America, grew to love that area. So anyway, anything French, and then, of course, have traveled over there across the pond as well. So anyway, there you go. Peter, what insight-- That's a good one. Well, yeah, I expect-- What insight have you got? Well, first, I expect you to share that little gem in French. And now you have me craving poutine. So we're going to have to go find a good poutine place around. Right, exactly. But no, so I was at a conference this week as well and listened to a presentation a couple hours by some economists. And yes, it was quite entertaining. I know not everybody loves sitting and listening to economists for a few hours. But there was one particular nugget that really stood out to me as they were talking about trends over the next several years of the employee market, really that the market, the labor market, it really is in favor of the employee for these next several years because of the shift in the workforce. And to illustrate it, they said, obviously, as members of the boomer generation are aging out of the workforce, retiring, heading off into the next chapter of their life, the gap in terms of the number leaving is not even coming close to being replaced by members of Gen Z who are entering the workforce. And so there's that big gap. And they made a comment, said, even if as a country we increased immigration by over four times our present rate, we would still not be able to fill all of the vacancies in the job market. So that's just such a massive shift. And so that caused me to think, well, what are we doing? Or what can organizations do to really help keep the employees that they have and to attract those new ones coming in? Because those in the workforce, they get to vote with their feet of where they want to go. And this isn't just a notion that's going to be sticking around here for a year or two. It's going to be around for several years. So it really does put that position of power on the employee and those in the recruiting side, the leadership side of organizations. All right, what do we do to really manage this? You're making me think. I was just chatting just two days ago with a client and beginning a project to define their employee value proposition, the why people want to come and work for the organization, what that looks like, how to then frame it up, and how to keep that consistent through all of the other internal people processes and the employee lifecycle. It is such the employee market still. Now, not everywhere all the time, but it is such a significant part. And organizations continue to need to focus on clarifying what is attractive about what the organization can offer and more than simply the lip service, making that a reality. Because the expectation management is so vital. Once something is communicated and those expectations are clarified and the candidate then chooses to come on board, what they experience needs to come close. And if not close, even exceed those expectations that have been set in order for the person to stay and to be retained, which retention and attraction, those are the names of the game for the next many years as it continues to be an employee-focused marketplace. It is. And how you help maintain-- I would venture to say that most people starting a new job or a new role, there is optimism about that role. They took this job for a reason. And odds are, especially if the market continues the way it is, they had multiple offers. So they've chosen to come to you. How do you help them not regret that decision? And how do you go so far as to even exceed what that decision-- their expectations? Yeah. So it leads us really into the topic we can discuss a little bit more today, that notion of onboarding, of how do we help prepare people for success in their roles, help them feel integrated, knowledgeable, help them feel competent that they can be successful doing what they can? And a lot of this came from these last couple of weeks as I've had some group coaching sessions with a cohort, so all senior leaders, and then some follow-up sessions from trainings we had several months ago to continue to support them in their journey. And about four of them out of this cohort over this last cycle have had an internal promotion. Yet they've also mentioned that their onboarding into that new role was, all right, so here's your new assignment. Good luck. It's like, here you go. It's like, there's a lot of assumptions based in there. And they're looking around saying, well, I'm having to kind of carve out and figure out what my role description is. Like, who are these new people on my team? Are the processes-- OK, yeah, payroll's similar. But all these other functions are different, especially in a large organization where it's cross-division or a different customer they might be interacting with or so forth. So this concept of onboarding, how do we help that be successful is, I think, a topic most all organizations can connect with. And leaders, there are things we can do to improve. And nearly any organization that I've been working with, that others on the team work with, inevitably the onboarding processes are not as strong as they could be. And it's not just our observation. It's often stated by the organization as well, say, yep, we don't do as strong of a job. And it's remarkable how it can be continually discounted with the importance of the onboarding and the assimilation and the welcoming. And I would argue that it's paid a little bit more attention with external hires because you need to. It's the recognition, wow, you really don't know the organization at all. We've got to do something. However, to your point, Peter, internal promotions, that is where oftentimes an organization can completely fall down because it's this assumption of, you already know us. You have all the tools you need. Good luck. And I continue to have the metaphor in my mind of, here's the deep end of the pool. And the person's like, I don't know if I can swim. I've never-- oh, that's OK. You've been hanging out in the 3-foot section. You're going to be fine in the 10-foot section. Good luck. And that doesn't always end well. And I'll stop the metaphor there. But it just doesn't-- so as we think of the maturity spectrum of what organizations can do, what they can consider, at a minimum, it's at least-- and this is what I will often see-- it's at least scheduling one-on-ones with important people. And that's a good minimum onboarding approach. Welcome. I as your boss, I as your HR partner, somebody is going to introduce you and help you figure out, get some one-on-ones, get some basic introductions. And then that usually is the 30-day plan. And after that, good luck. Now, that's better than nothing. But Peter, what else can be considered to go beyond that which can be helpful? Oh, there's so much more you can do. But even as you're describing the analogy with the pool, as you're swimming in there, and this kind of base level, like we're going to assign you to somebody and get you that 30-day plan, it reminds me of the first experience I ever had snow skiing. I was in high school. I'd never skied in my life. We were in Portland. A good buddy of mine found out I'd never skied. He said, we're going skiing this Friday. I'm like, OK. So we drive up after school. This was night skiing. And never done this. We go in there, rent some skis, get the lift ticket. He's like, follow me. Come on over to the chairlift. I'm like, OK. I'm like, isn't there some little hill I'm supposed to practice on or something? He's like, oh, no. They stop along the way as you go up the chairlift. Again, I'd never done this senior in high school. So we get on the chairlift. Of course, I've fallen all over the place trying to get on the chair. We go up, and we keep going higher and higher up. I'm like, there's no stops on this, is there? And he looks, and he just smiles. He's like, no. So then we get off the chair. He does it quite gracefully. I'm falling all over the place. He then turns to me and says, all right. See you at the bottom. And he goes down. And I figure out my way to get down, and I'm falling half the time. And gratefully, I don't break anything and end up having a somewhat enjoyable time, but high levels of confusion. I really didn't know where I was going. I really didn't know what I was doing, and I really didn't know who I was supposed to talk to. And so as we think about that situation, how do we help ensure they know what they're doing, they know who they're supposed to talk to, and they know where they're supposed to be going? And that really helps set up these levels of onboarding to consider. How do you onboard someone to their role? How do you onboard someone to their team? And how do you onboard them to the organization? And each of those areas need specific, intentional actions. And out of those, which do you think organizations probably do the best at, if we're just looking at role, team, and organization? That's a good question, because I would say oftentimes there's this general orientation that you go through, a half day, a day, something of that nature. It's high level. It's introducing some of the main leaders, values, culture, general policies. And those can be done really well. And then it's kind of like, hey, here's your manager. Your manager should take it from there. And that's where the experience can vary tremendously, because by the team and the role, it tends to kind of deteriorate in terms of the consistency and high level of all of this. Would you agree or disagree with that, from your take? No, my take as well, I think, sure, there's variability. But especially for an external hire, there's that initial focus of, we want you to know who we are as an organization, especially organizations that have a strong mission, vision, value proposition that they're displaying. They want that acculturation to the organization. And so I think that can be done well. And then that handoff really is where you get in the specifics of, here's your role. Here's where you're going to be. Here's where you're either going to be-- do you need a laptop? Do you need wrenches to turn? Do you need-- I mean, what are the tools of whatever your role is required? Yeah. I think those actually can be done, relative to these things. I think the big gap area is, how do you assimilate them to the team that they're a part of? I think oftentimes, that's an area that gets neglected, or it's more of, oh, well, they'll just kind of get used to knowing who each other are. And you raise some good points, especially-- it gets at one of these base assumptions that how much of the responsibility of assimilation rests on the employee to figure out on their own, and how much of it rests on their manager or the organization to help support. And it's like it's this negotiating back and forth, often not open negotiation, but it's these expectations. And sometimes, it can be the manager or the organization expecting the employee to figure it out quickly. And in fact, it is evidence of the right hire, the faster they can figure it out, which to a certain degree may be very accurate. The time to proficiency can fluctuate and change, but the expectation is they should be able to ramp up rapidly and figure things out. While that can be an indicator of somebody who is a quick study and can have some existing skills, the challenge is there can be an over-reliance and expectation that the employee owns all of that, or the great majority. When in fact, if a good assimilation needs to happen, the organization needs to be very clear, just as you're saying, at the organization level and at the team and role level, particularly at the team and role level, and what we consistently find is organizations that pay attention at the team and role level and are clear about that path, especially the first 90 days, it can increase retention dramatically. It can help the person feel like they belong, which is one of the most important elements in any engagement index. And it can accelerate their ability to add value quicker. If both of these parties, the employee and the team, the organization can take responsibility. So let's talk for a moment around this team aspect, and then we can talk about the role aspect. What can be done at the team level to accelerate some of this onboarding, belonging, connection process? To help them really get to know their team, one, at least have some individual introductions. Give them, here's a roster, here's a list, here's where you can find on SharePoint or Teams, these are the members of the team. Making it very clear, this is the cadence, this is when our team meeting occurs, or how often that is. This is what each individual does on the team, so that you're aware of what those roles are. And schedule a little time one-on-one to get to know people, get to know them. Hopefully, they're reaching out to that new member of the team, that they have enough clarity on what the team's doing, that they can be additional ambassadors for the team. It's not just solely reliant on the manager, but you utilize that team peer relationship to help with that. So I think those are just some very minimum levels, so that they are able to not only understand where they fit within the organization, but they see, hmm, how does my role fit within the functions of the team?'Cause as they start to integrate that and understand it, then they better know, oh, this is probably who I need to be reaching out to talk to about this, or this is how this can go. So I think that's one aspect. And then the secondary aspect is, what is the team culture like? You know, is this a team that likes to have potlucks every Friday? Is this a completely remote team? You know, and we actually reserve the last five minutes of our calls to have a little chit-chat. You know, are there various Slack channels or team channels that people utilize to communicate, to integrate? So it's giving them that broader assimilation beyond just the day-to-day, you know, get your timesheet in here, make sure this report's due here, and here's this, oh, we got to take really special care of this customer, because they, you know, history there. All of that's good information, but it's going beyond just the job duties.- Sure. And what I would add is this team chartering process, which can be so powerful to help clarify several things, such as the purpose of the team, the main stakeholders or customers, the main results that are focused on the team, the norms or the ways that we interact with each other, as well as the boss expectations, how we interact with the team leader or the boss, and expectations both ways. Those key elements of a team charter, to be able to have that clarified with the team ahead of time so that it can be shared as somebody new joins the team. They can have something to share, something that's memorialized, written down, talked about, and invited to participate within. It is a fantastic way of being able to accelerate this. And then the second thing is that new team assimilation process, especially for a new leader. And there's that process that often involves asking key questions of the team, sharing those answers with the team leader, having the team leader then come and react and respond. And it's a bit of a formalized process. It can be varied based upon the culture and the needs. The point is to accelerate, accelerate the information and the understanding so much faster, essentially the stuff that will kind of accidentally happen over a year period. How do we scrunch that up? How do we get that going quicker? And oftentimes that new leader assimilation process can be so helpful. So those are some specific tools and approaches that can be done either ahead of time with the team chartering, or then also in real time, a month or two, as somebody new is coming on, to revisit that assimilation process around how do we focus around strategy and the culture component and interact as a team? So those are elements that sometimes are missing, but are key in terms of that team onboarding process.- And it's key as you're referencing all of these, the chartering, the assimilation, and it causes me to think, why do some of these have to wait for the onboarding? Like imagine the power in an interview as you're recruiting somebody, because we know interviews are both ways. You know, you're trying to assess fit, they're trying to assess fit, and you share very clearly, hey, as you're learning about us, here are our seven team operating principles. This is the culture of the team that we espouse to. And what an eye-opening one, what is the message that sends? That we care about our culture enough that we've documented it, and we intentionally have behaviors to help promote the culture we want to have here. And how is that going to be a differentiator for them as they may be interviewing at other places? I doubt that's a very common thing that's shared.- Yep, it's a good point. And so now let's take a look at the role itself. What are the things that could be done for the role to define it? And I'll throw a wrench into this. What happens if a leader doesn't fully know, not because they're unaware, but because the nature of the role may be changing or evolving or being reshaped by the very person who's coming in to define that role?- That never happens.- Right.- I don't know what you're talking about. You're talking about ambiguity in a role?- So then, how do we then assimilate and onboard somebody to a role that may have degrees of ambiguity involved in it? And frankly, that's the name of the game as we continue to grow so that it can, any organization, so there's flexibility in learning while still recognizing basic level understanding of what's expected in the role.- It seems to happen so often, especially as organizations grow, as they scale, as they recognize, here's a need that I think we have. And so they try and create a job description around that. But then as they start to fill that, or it's really unclear, they bring on somebody with a skillset that they anticipate is gonna fill that need. But then it turns out it's actually morphing into a different type of role. So I think that's where onboarding is most successful, as we talked earlier, when it comes to expectations. How do you help control and manage those expectations? If someone's coming in and hired for a role that sounds like there may be some ambiguity to it, are we upfront about that? And talking through, here are the steps that we're gonna take to mold and define this role together. Here are things that we're considering so that as they're coming in, they're not thinking, yep, oh, everybody's done this before, as opposed to, I'm the first senior director of fill in the blank for this organization. You mean, not only is there role ambiguity that they're having to deal with then, but also there's organizational ambiguity because nobody else in the organization understands truly how to interact with them. So it's both directions. And so you need a certain personality type or skill type, someone who is comfortable helping to create and carve their own ambiguity. So several thoughts there as we're going through.- And I find in some ways, it gets at one of these deep assumptions that leaders have that they need to, they expect themselves to have all of the answers. And if they don't have all the answers, it can be uncomfortable, and thus they either avoid conversations or they don't give as complete information or something that isn't as helpful. And it's good to keep in mind that, first of all, you don't need to have all of the answers. And in place of having a clear answer of what you need to do in terms of a role, there is a alternative solution. And that is to have a clear process by which we can define that answer together.- Say that again. That's a really good point. Just to put an exclamation point on it.- Yeah, so in place of having the right answer, in place of having that lovely ideal answer of saying exactly what you need to be doing in your role, there is an alternative. And that is where you can then further define the process of how to get to those answers together. And that process, sometimes leaders don't always think that that's an answer. But the process itself, for example, it might mean that we are going to meet twice a week for a half hour, and we're gonna be able to be clear in terms of what have you been able to accomplish, what will you accomplish, and set one or two clear goals and objectives. That is the process by which we are gonna be approaching this. Another approach might be, we're gonna be meeting once a week as a team. People will come with the main concern that they have, we discuss it as a team, we record the direction that's needed to go, and we identify when the clear followups will be. That's another process. Even those are, oh, it helps clarify that this is a collaborative open environment. You don't have to have, maybe it's a more directive and authoritative. And so the process is, I'm gonna meet with you and tell you what you need to do this week. I wanna report back on Wednesday. Whatever it is, what is the process of communication and flow of decisions to be able to help align what expectations are being needed? How do we get there? And when people have a plan or an approach, that can be just as satisfactory, just as satisfying as having the perfect right answer.'Cause frankly, as we're all dealing with such complicated and also complex, two different things, but a complicated place can have an answer, it's just challenging to get there. A complex situation may not have a discrete answer, and we define it together, clarifying things. What kind of an issue we're talking about and how to get there, powerful, not only for the onboarding process, but setting patterns and habits to help people know how to best work together moving forward.- That's really well put in terms of the emphasis on the process. And we could even think psychologically when there is a process established and the process seems to make sense, how far that goes to alleviating anxiety. And anxiety is one of the biggest barriers to innovation and ideas, because there's fear and there's worry caught up in it. And when you're able to bring that down and say, ah, this is an iterative process, we're going to build this together, there is a plan, I'm not just doing this on my own.- I'm not just left at the top of the ski hill, and good luck. Even though I was given the equipment, I was given a pathway and then left on my own. How we guide that along.- And ask me how many other times I've skied.(laughing)- Peter, I don't recall ever hearing you've been skiing since then, is that correct?- I went one other time that I skied. And I think the stage was set where it could have been a really memorable experience. The setting, the fit, I wanted to ski. It was a beautiful place, but it was not a positive experience because of all these unmet expectations, uncertainties and unknowns. Yeah, so I think as we're keeping that in mind through that onboarding process, we're helping to reflect on, how am I connecting them to their role? If it's not established, how are we clarifying the process? How am I connecting them with their team? Clarifying the team chartering, does the team clear on their purpose, on their vision, on their operating principles or ground rules or norms, and on who the stakeholders are? Are we helping inform them about their organization? What is the culture? Who do we serve? Why do we exist? What is the broader function and purpose to why we're here? All those parts are critical so that you get them not only wanting to ski again, but they want to ski on your hill. (laughing)- Yeah, that's well captured. And I'll add one more thing and then we can wrap up here. The other practice that I see, which is so helpful, and that builds on the support that's needed, is some sort of accountability partner, some sort of small cohort that they're able to work together in groups of two or three or four. Oftentimes there is some sort of executive coach, which helps them manage through the, because they're going through these various reactions inside and adjusting their own mindsets and habits and perspectives. And that's a bit of mental work as well. So the point is, yes, you have a boss. Yes, you can have somebody in HR. Who's the peer? Who's the coach? Who's the advisor? Who's an accountability partner, a buddy, a mentor? However the organization wants to frame it, internal and/or external, both what sort of private board of directors, so to speak, to help guide them through those initial few months so that they're not alone in the deep end or going down the bunny slopes or the big slopes all by themselves and ruining their ankles and knees in the process. You know, we all get a few bumps and bruises, but we don't want them so severe that it will leave a mark, a mark in a way that's gonna be hard to overcome in the future as they keep on working.- Oh, it's true. And as you were sharing that, I also was thinking of those situations'cause we're focusing very much on the job, role team organizations. What about somebody who's relocating to a new city?- Right. - New state. And that support person, that partner that you're mentioning, they can also be vital to help. Hey, are you finding the grocery stores? Are you finding the place you want? How are things happening in the life outside of work? Because as we've learned, particularly over these last several years, we bring all of ourself where we go. And so helping to look at that whole person. So we could head off on another tangent there, but I think we've given some good thoughts as we're considering. So Daniel, as we're closing, Lightning Round.(upbeat music) Question for you. What is the biggest mistake to avoid in the onboarding process?- The biggest mistake is to ignore it. Is to ignore the whole process itself and to discredit it, to discount it, to pretend it doesn't matter and to sidetrack it because you're too busy or we haven't prepared and just expect the person to fend for themself. You hear a little passion here because this is what can destroy value. You bring on somebody, you believe in them, they're excited and the value potential that they can bring will greatly diminish if they are not able to be assimilated in an effective way. And that goes both ways. The employee, as well as the organization, there needs to be a plan. There needs to be a process. There needs to be paid attention to and not to ignore the importance of it. So that's how I'd go for that, Peter. What's the one thing? What's the one thing that if we want to be able to do onboarding well in an organization that they need to pay attention to?- The one thing to pay attention to do onboarding well is to establish clear and frequent and intentional lines of communication. It's the only way to check in to see how are things going? Are we checking in about how they're adapting to their role? How they're feeling with their team? How comfortable they are with their organization? None of that can happen if there isn't that communication line established. So I think that's the most important. It's those frequent touch points. It's not, all right, check in, we'll see you in a week. It's frequent, frequent, frequent communication lines. That's the most important variable.- Yeah, well said, especially with a structured perspective to it. Peter, another great Leadership Growth Podcast episode. Always fun to do these with you. And listeners, thanks for joining us. As hopefully you've been able to take some great tools and ideas to help build and strengthen your ability to lead others. Please subscribe and comment on the podcast. And we look forward to having you join us the next time. Take care, everyone. If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, or better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content, or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.