[upbeat music] Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast.[upbeat music] Coaching sessions can happen anywhere from once a week to every couple weeks to once a month. It all varies on what the level of availability and need is for that coaching engagement, but regardless of the frequency, usually the sessions follow a similar pattern. And oftentimes right in the beginning, it's a pause and breathe because usually that individual that leader is is running from their last meeting to get to the call, whether it's in person, whether it's virtual, and they've had a million crises they've already been dealing with that day. And it's a okay, you made it? Just breathe a second. This is your time. This is your time to focus on what you're working on for development and to process through issues that are currently keeping you up at night. So then as we give them just a moment to pause, it doesn't take long and breathe. Then it's usually a highlight of, okay, here are a couple things we can follow up from last session. We can talk about progress on your action plan. And three, what what's the current crises de jure and what would be most helpful for you? So kind of out of out of those options I usually hand it over to them saying what's priority for you?[upbeat music] Hello everyone, and welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined with my brother Peter Stewart and we're pleased to have you join us for another episode. And today we're going to be talking about coaching. Tools and ideas on how to best prepare for a coaching session, whether you are delivering one, but more so as a coachee, one who is a participant in the coaching process. What should you expect? How do you optimize a coaching session when you have a coach? A lot to talk about and we can dive into that, but before we do, we are going to talk about the Insight of the Week.[upbeat music] Peter, what would you want to share as an Insight of the Week? I feel like we need a drum roll there in post to help that. Always good to join for another session. So the Insight of the Week, a Gallup survey was looking at highlighting the most common blind spots of managers. And two stood out. So I wanted to just review those as it's always a good check for us to see, all right, how are we doing and are we doing as well as we might think we're doing? So here's the first one. It is providing weekly feedback. 50% of managers said that they do that well. But when interviewed their direct reports said only 20% of their managers do it well. So a difference of about 30%. So the managers think they're providing weekly feedback. Their direct reports are saying uh no. You're not doing it as often as you think. So that's one check. Then the second one is recognition for good work. When surveying managers, 59% say yep I'm doing a good job providing recognition for my people, for my team. Their direct reports only 35% feel like their manager is doing a good job recognizing their work. So it leads you to to wonder, okay, is the manager just overinflating their sense of how well they're doing these things? Or is it they're not doing it in a way that's really making it memorable so that they realize that they're doing it? Yeah, this this gap. And you think that the manager has every incentive to look at him or herself and say, yes, I am providing feedback and or, you know, recognition in some way. And yet does it actually come out of their mouth as often as they think it does? Because we might think things, does it always come out and does it come out in a way that others can receive it and recognize it as oh, that's helpful feedback, negative, positive, constructive, whatever it is, as well as the recognition, and do people recognize that as recognition or a compliment or an acknowledgment of some sort, and it appears that the perception is that there's not just a small gap. There is a very large gap between what the manager thinks they're saying and doing versus what the employee actually receives and thinks is happening. These were the two with the largest gaps, hence why we're highlighting them is probably the most likely and most common blind spot for the majority of managers out there. And when we're thinking about the recognition part as well, it's paying attention also to who you're providing that recognition or that acknowledgment of. This is for that direct report for that employee. Now the manager might be bragging about their team to their team to as they're working or to others throughout the organization. But is that message getting back to that individual? So that's also something to be aware of is who is the audience by which you might be communicating that recognition if you feel like you are. Because the grapevine might not fertilize the positive news back to that individual. That that's a great point because you may say something to your boss or to others say, yeah, I completely trust that person on my team that they do a fantastic job. And so you're complimenting, you're recognizing, but does it actually make it back to the employee? You know, I also wonder, sometimes I will do this all the time. If somebody says something nice, it's easy to discount it. And there's all sorts of reasons for us to discount it. We don't want to look like we're patting ourselves on the back in front of others. Sometimes we can feel uncomfortable with it so we try not to focus on it too much. You know, there's all sorts of these reasons that we have to minimize the recognition when we actually do achieve it. And do receive it. And I wonder how much of that also plays in, and so what can the manager do to help the person recognize, hey, I care about you. I want to be clear. These are some things you're doing really well. Um and then the other part is, you know how like customer service surveys are often stated that only the people who had a great time, great experience, or a terrible experience are the ones who usually fill this thing out. Correct. And these are the things that because people remember this. And what's also the the common understanding out there of a negative experience, you know, is like worth five to ten times the single positive one in terms of memory. And so you wonder if the manager shares one negative feedback, all of the other good stuff can can sometimes be easily dismissed. Yeah. It's just putting the putting the slop of, you know, stinky, I don't know, rotten fish on top of a sundae, ice cream sundae. It's like you're not going to really remember that sundae. You're going to remember the stinky rotten fish on top. Ooh, that's that's visceral. I don't want that. So here are here then are two tips for providing recognition. One, keep it specific. General platitudes of oh, you're doing a great job or hey, that was well done but get specific of the way you organized that presentation or made that report or focused on this area on this chart was really helpful. So get specific. And the second one is recognizing that there's a lot of emotions that come into play in the situation where we might be receiving feedback, especially if it's verbal. Written feedback allows a reference point for somebody to go back and review it again, to read it again, to see it again. It's that it's once you say something, it's it's gone.[laughing] But if it's written, that can last. And so that has an impact. So those are the two. Keep it specific and when possible, make it tangible. Write it down. Let me add a third that that was occurring to me as you as you're thinking through this as well. And that is keep it separate. In other words, make sure you don't just put a recognition, a complement, negative, constructive, all in one fell swoop. And this is my beef with kind of the feedback sandwich idea to say something nice, constructive, and the nice. I get it and that can be useful sometimes. However, if you want somebody to remember a positive recognition, don't always put it with some constructive thing. Have it as a separate comment, a separate team's message, a separate email, a separate phone call for it to stand out. And so it's not then the pattern of oh yeah, anytime I'm going to talk to my boss, I might get recognition and get boom, boom, boom, and so that, you know, I'm going to totally discount all of the the recognition stuff, because we as humans, as I mentioned earlier, have such a tendency to discount positive things anyway. So the point here is to vary up how you share it and sometimes just have it be a separate comment and let that linger for an hour or two or three before you share something else, so that people can let it sink in and go, oh, wow, that that was an achievement or, you know, a recognition of something that I was able to achieve or something I did I did well. That's a really good point. And it can even go so far as if you're providing a spot bonus to somebody, and it might be just a gift card, It might be just $50 or hundred dollars or whatever. If that can be paid in a or delivered in a way separate from their paycheck, it stands out. It's not just lumped in. So helping to create that sense of, oh, this is a separate engagement. And back to the the feedback sandwich, you don't want to feel like you're just buttering them up to to[laughing] you know let them have it. Right. Because we've all been a part of that and you're just half listening to what's being said because you're in the back preparing mentally, okay, I'm I'm grabbing onto the seat of the, you know, my chair. What's what what's going to come now? What's going to when's the shoe going to drop? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're reminding me, I worked with a uh a chief sales officer and I was doing some coaching with him, and he was so good at being able to find things that people were doing well. And he exemplified what I'll often call as a leader moment. And a leader moment is like at the beginning of a meeting or at the tail end of a meeting, or after you walk away from a meeting, or you you send a quick team's message after a meeting, and it's that 20, 30 seconds where you can have that and it's fresh and it's taking advantage where you say a recognition. You catch people doing something well. You say, hey, in that meeting, you just really, really uh shined brightly. That was a great comment. You asked a great question. That was insightful. And and that's a chief sales officer I was working with, he would do that at the end of his one on ones. And so that was where people would finish the conversation. That was the lingering thing on their minds. So he placed it there. And I don't think he even did it like strategically. It's just how he genuinely felt. And he wanted to catch people doing things right, and it really worked well, and so people felt he really shared a lot of positive recognition for them. So, as a thought, I just I wanted to share that one. That's a great example. And as you're sharing that, I'm thinking of something that we often don't recognize or won't admit, but sure can carry a lot of weight, and it's when somebody did something or said something that changed our mind, changed our perspective, altered our course, and it's an acknowledgment to say, hey, actually, you made a really good point here and that changed my prior assumption. So not only are you acknowledging their contribution, but you're letting them know you valued it that much that it altered your course. It altered your thought process. So it's all it's just it's having that engagement and that conversation. So lots of different ways to think about how are we providing recognition? There. Some good, good thoughts. The transition here is an easy one from feedback and recognition to now talking about a coaching session. How to optimize a coaching session. Now, we're going to, of course, be talking about the coaching session from from the perspective of having an external coach come and meet with a coachee, and how that coachee can prepare, but this can equally apply to an internal coach going and meeting with a coachee, and that that internal coach could be a boss. It could also be a member of HR. It could also be an internally recognized or certified coach as well. The point is as you, listeners, as you are having a coach, how do you prepare and optimize for a typical coaching session? And frankly, what happens in a typical coaching session? We've talked before on the program of how to, what kind of the first session might be, when you first meet with your coach, and often that's that it's the intake process, as the coach is going to ask a lot about your background, your strengths, challenges, where you're wanting to focus, to clarify that objective and gather some assessment and and meet with your boss and others, yes, but once that's done and and once that assessment and action plan are kind of squared away, what do those coaching sessions look like? How frequently do they do they happen? And what can you do to optimize that? So, Peter, kick us off here. Walk us through a typical coaching session that you might lead and we'll go from there. Sounds good. So coaching sessions can happen anywhere from once a week to every couple weeks to once a month. It all varies on what the level of availability and need is for that coaching engagement. But regardless of the frequency, usually the sessions follow a similar pattern. And oftentimes, right in the beginning it's a pause and breathe[laughing] because usually that individual, that leader is is running from their last meeting to get to the call, whether it's in person, whether it's virtual, and they've had a million crises they've already been dealing with that day. And it's a, okay, you made it? Just breathe a second. This is your time. This is your time to focus on what you're working on for development and to process through issues that are currently keeping you up at night. So then as we give them just a moment to pause, it doesn't take long and breathe. Then it's usually a highlight of, okay, here are a couple things we can follow up from last session. We can talk about progress on your action plan. And three, what what's the current crises dejour and what would be most helpful for you? So kind of out of out of those options I usually hand it over to them saying, what's priority for you? And then we go from there. Yeah, it's so much having them own where they need to go. And to build on what you're saying, oftentimes, I will match my pace with theirs, because if they're coming in and they're moving quick and they got to do a lot of stuff, I will often then match and say, all right, this is what we talked about last time. What are the hot topics on your mind? Where do you want to start? Because we want to end in a place that is going to be most helpful for you as a leader. Where do you want to dive in? And so it's a quick way of kind of framing that agenda and saying, where do you want to go? And then you let the coaching begin, and I often think of coaching as a bit of jazz. Yep. It's not just a symphony that has an exact score that you follow to the tee. No, it is far more like jazz. You have the main themes that come from the follow-up points and the hot topics of the day and the action plan and the concerns. But then it is saying, all right, where do we dive in? Tell me about it. What have you been working on? How can I best support? And through that asking probing questions and challenging questions and offering observations and connecting ideas that maybe haven't connected before and going and seeing and following the energy, not of the coach, but of the coachee, what is going to be most helpful? And again, matching where they are at. It is not about the coach. It is all about that coachee. Yeah, I think it's it's laying out so that they own it. And as you're describing, we can head off in a variety of directions. And that I use that same thought from jazz. You know, it's okay, we're going to riff on a theme here. You know, how how are we going to where are we going to go from here and what's most helpful? Because this— what... a coaching session is not is it's just not a complaint fest. It's not just a time to sit here and complain about everything going on in their life. Right. Now, that doesn't mean we can't allow them to express challenges and struggles and frustrations. Great, but what are we going to do about it? What are the things you have influence over? What are the behaviors you can adjust? What are things you can prepare for? And that's where, we'll then work through and as you say with asking probing questions, it's digging into are there alternate ideas, actions, thoughts that you can do beyond just their default approach? Sometimes that default approach hasn't worked for them in the past. So we're trying to learn a new behavior, a different type of reaction, a different way to have a conversation with that. So that's that's where you can go through. So how do you balance, Daniel, then the the need from that kind of long term focus on an action plan with the daily dumpster fire.[laughing] That's that's hitting them right now. Yeah, and I often think of any good coaching session has two work streams happening simultaneously or kind of going back and forth as needed. That first workstream is the overarching action plan. And this action plan usually is set up for at least three months, maybe longer, and it comes from often their assessments, interviews with their boss, HR, others, and it's agreed upon by the coachee and it could be things like, how do I communicate more effectively? How do I build stronger teams? How do I innovate better? How do I think more strategically? How do I improve my delegation? Something like that. And it's an overarching action plan and inevitably we spend at a minimum five to ten minutes during each coaching session revisiting, seeing what successes they're having, what challenges they're having, how they would want to tweak it, what feedback, and sometimes taking longer, it just depends. And then the other workstream are the issues that come up day to day. What are the current challenges? What meetings do they just have success with or challenge with? What meetings are they preparing for? What conversations do they know they need to have? And sometimes what situation just emerged that they need to think through in a different way. And there are so many examples coming in my mind. So, for example, today, I was just having a coaching session and this was an hour, by the way, coaching sessions can be anywhere between 15 minutes to two hours and it can vary tremendously. Um, and we'll talk later on. We actually use a retainer model, so the time is not so much just standardized, but it can be changed up to fit the need of the leader, because sometimes a five minute call is what's needed, sometimes a half hour conversation. Oftentimes we have two formal coaching sessions during that month. Anyway, so back to the session this morning, it was an hour call. The individual is a general manager for a large area internationally. And he's been there three months. So one of the great uses of executive coaching is the onboarding process, helping especially a new senior leader, get used to and acclimate to and socialize. And so we've been working on his strategic plan. He's now going to be having a full team assimilation, as well as working with him in terms of building strong relationships with his boss and his peers and evaluating talent, as well as then setting his future strategic goals. So we've had specific assignments for each session to follow up and bring his latest strategy, what he's working on and his evaluation of his people coupled with his mindset shifts. And so this is something else I'll really emphasize. Coaching is really effective when it talks about yes, behavior, and that could be on their action plan and day to day, but also the mindset. How are you approaching problems? How are you viewing yourself? How are you addressing your own blind spots, which goes back to some of that feedback blind spots stuff we talked early on. But that's just one example here as we're talking about the onboarding process. And so we set clear goals. The action plan is to assimilate effectively and to lead a great team. Awesome. Now let's continue to be able to dive deep into what you're learning with each person on the team, and how are you validating some of this and using that to inform future decisions as you lead and guide the business. Those are really good questions you're pointing out. Well, I know we're talking about coaching sessions, but just right there, those questions on how you're integrating with the team, how you're acclimating to a new, to a new situation. Those are really helpful. I'm reminded of a session I had a few years ago that stood out to me because it very much required a pivot from the overarching action plan to there was a crisis at the moment in which this individual is coming in and let me know that after that coaching session, they had a meeting with their direct supervisor with their boss and they were planning to just let them have it. They were fed up with so many different things that were going on. And so over the course of that session, it was, now, for me as a coach, I I didn't was this a good idea? Was this a bad idea? I'm fundamentally neutral on this, I wanted to be sure they were thinking through the pros and cons of what they were about to do, and so as we started to dig deeper into what is the message you want to share? We used a an empty chair technique in that in that coaching session. And this was an in-person one where there was an empty chair. I said, okay, your boss is here right now. I'm not here. I want you to share the message you want to share with your boss right here. Let just just let it go. So they did. I hear this and I'm like, oh man, this is career suicide. Like, this is this is not going to go well. I said all right, what were the core messages that you wanted to convey? And as kind of helping to bring the emotion down, we identified there were two or three core issues that this individual had. I say, okay. Now, if we prioritize these, which is most important to you? Okay. Now, what are ways in which you— this can be communicated in a way that is less acc— accusing them? You know, it's more laying out what are what are the facts? What is the evidence of sharing it? So anyway, we could we could keep going deeper into it, but it helped them reflect on really what they were trying to share. And at the end of the day, their emotions dropped significantly to where they realized, you know, maybe maybe I shouldn't have this meeting right now.[laughing] And they wanted to think about things a little bit uh deeper. They ended up having the meeting later on and were able to address some core issues and work through that relationship. But I think that was just a very tangible example of their long-term plan of focusing on their team and other things was not what was needed at that moment. There was a very pressing urgent issue to process through and to work on. So they came out with a next steps, a plan, and then we were also able to process that session at a subsequent session so they could see and observe what happened as they became even more disconn— removed from the intensity of the moment. That's such a great example to illustrate the need for tremendous flexibility around the topics that we dive into and the need for the coachee to come with something, and even if they don't for the coach to ask and deprobe and say, what's on your mind? Or one of the one of my favorite opening questions is how's business? How's it really happen— how's it going? How are the financial results? How are how are the teams? What do you liking? What are you frustrated with? What would be something that if you tweaked would be even better? Inevitably we are discovering things that we might talk about and then asking if we talked about what you just mentioned, would that be helpful today? Asking them because if they say no, great, let's not worry about it. Now, if you look at it and see a red flag, you can always, as the coach say, can I share something? The topic you just mentioned, especially say it's this potential conversation with your boss, imagine the coachee, Peter, that you had said you know what, I don't wanna talk about the meeting I'm just going to have with my boss and lambast him. You might say, do you mind if I offer a thought? Let's play out this for just five minutes because we want to see where this might go and what are two or three other approaches that you may consider. Would that be helpful for you? And fundamentally, they say no, okay, let's move on. But this this term let's play it out. Yes. I find is so helpful because it epitomizes the value of the coaching session as a sounding board. So I was coaching a chief marketing officer. Actually, I still am. Um, and and he has been reorganizing his department. And he will bring his suggested reorganization, and he's talked to HR about it, great, and he's shared it with his boss. Yeah, making sure that happens. And I'll say, okay, let's work through this. Let's play it out. As you communicate this, what are going to be the reactions? And fast forward in three months. What will be the impact to the business if you continue or if you change things? What about in six months? What about in a year? OK, now, let's practice. You explain this to me. Imagine I'm one of the directors that will be changed up. What will you communicate? What will be my challenges? And then another thing I love to do is perspective taking. And I can then ask the chief marketing director, all right? If you were the head of HR, what would you tell the person? If you were the CEO, how would you frame it up differently? Mm hmm. If you were your favorite boss, how would he or she handle communicating to this? Those perspective taking approaches so powerful, cause inevitably, not only does it help the person practice, it helps them see things from different perspectives to help change up things perhaps and or get more confident about how they want to approach their future plans. And this perspective taking and this let's play it out approach is some of the most effective ways of being able to help challenge executive mindset and thinking without going and saying, hey, that's that's a dumb idea, because I have no right to say it's a dumb idea. It may be a great idea or not that's for them to think through and ultimately make that decision. And that idea of playing it out. I use that as well. It's it's a very helpful technique and as you it applies both at more that macro level of that organization of how might this change be received from different perspectives, but also very much on that one-on-one conversation level? Let's play it out. Oftentimes, an action suggestion that they they'll have is, okay, I'm going to go talk with this person or I need to communicate this. I'm like, great, let's play out that conversation. Mmm. What is it that you want to convey? Just like we were doing in that example with their, their boss, And it doesn't have to be as intense, but it's it's walking through that and talking through it and and helping reinforce that principle of the pause. And anytime we're communicating, if we have our clear intent on what are these core concepts or ideas we want to communicate, then it helps that become so much more clear, especially if we think this is going to be a difficult conversation for whatever way. It's having those core points we want to try and convey and then practicing through how that can be, may be received, different ways it can be couched, ways that can be shared, and how that then can be delivered. And so then let's talk about how do you end a coaching session? And I often will have two things that I do at the end. Mm hmm. First is I will ask the person what are the follow-up questions that I'm going to be asking you the next time we meet? And then I will have taken notes, but I look to them and say, what is resonating from the action plan, from the daily challenges, what am I going to be following up on? And it's definitely going to be following up on the next session but sometimes it's tomorrow or the next day or next week. You're going to send me a quick email or a quick text or we'll have a quick call. I want to hear what follow— what have you decided? What are you going to do? And you capture the follow-up questions so there's a level of accountability involved in this and there's follow-up. And then the second thing is, when are we going to meet next? Let's schedule it. So it's not just open ended, but it's there. It's on the calendar. They know what to expect, they know how to prepare. They know it's not just one kind of time you're chatting, and that's it. The point is to build accountability and ultimately measurement because the action plan enables you to then measure progress related to specific themes, and as they're sharing their action plan with their boss, the other thing I'll emphasize is that the coaching conversation is confidential. And so it's reinforcing the details that we talk about stay there. So anyway, Peter, how else what would you add to what else do you do at the end of a coaching session? I do a similar pattern to you. It's helping to give them time to reflect on what we've just discussed. So it's not just a helpful conversation, but we're pulling out of it what are these application items? What are next steps that need to be done? The points they want to remember from that the insights they may have had. And I'll ask that not just at the end of the session, but as we there oftentimes are segments or modules to the session as we've talked about a certain topic and then we move on to the next one before we we shift, I'll say, okay, now pause, before we leave here, what are we going to do about this? What is the insight? You either one thing you want to be sure you remember or, and or what is the one action you're going to be doing from that? And then at the end of the session, we will review those if there were some uh ideas shared mid session like that. But yeah, it's we we want there to be next steps identified angles so it's not again, just, oh, this was such a helpful time to talk. Not that talking's bad. Right. But we're human. You're now going to leave this conversation and whether we're getting off the team's call virtually or a Zoom call or you're walking out that door with someone else, you're now going to be hit with another conversation. There's something else you're going to do. You're going to be going to another meeting, even if you're on your drive or commute home or whatever, life gets in the way, so how do we help this actually have impact in your development over the coming weeks? Yeah. That's what we want to try and reinforce. So one more one more point and then we'll wrap up here. Oftentimes coaching can be done in one of two approaches. One is an hourly approach where the coach either charges by the hour or sets up things by the hour and it's every hour you have, that's the relationship. It's kind of by hour. The other approach is as a retainer model that the coach and you can have distinct coaching sessions, but they can be divided up in whatever chunks of time make sense, whatever frequency, and also, even if you do have say two coaching sessions during a month, there's unlimited access to the coach late night texts. You know, I need to resource this. Can you please review this presentation? And we of course, really prefer the retainer approach. That's what we do with most of our clients because we find that to be the most flexible to be able to meet people where they're at. Peter, what would you say in terms of kind of pros and cons to these approaches? I think well, obviously we have a bias. I think that the retainer approach allows for for that and that it doesn't feel like, oh, well, you're just wanting to have this extra call so you can bill me an extra hour type. And and not that I believe coaches really are motivated by that, but you want to just help take that away. You want it to truly be focused on the development and not a, oh, is this going to cost me more now? Because I have this question. So this idea that there's unlimited email, you know, phone call, text between sessions is something that we found to be so helpful for individuals because most people don't abuse it. I mean, they're not sitting here trying to call you every day. They're busy professionals. They have a job and when they do reach out, it's because one, it's acknowledgment that there's a trusted relationship and two, they want some, you know, counsel, advice. They there's a challenge that they're wanting some assistance working through or they need some guidance there. And so you can provide that. And to your point earlier, it might just be a five minute call, might be a quick response to a text, but we are their partner in this development journey. And that's... fundamental to coaching is building that relationship where you're there with them side by side as they're in their development journey. Yeah. Yeah, because it might end up being a 30 minutes once a week on a Friday afternoon or a Thursday evening, or it's every two to three weeks, a two hour block and that works the best. There's flexibility. Okay, Peter. At the end of sessions to that point is you were saying often you'll schedule that next session and I'll I'll do the same. It's saying, hey, is is the frequency of this working for you? You know, what what would best help your schedule? And so that is a topic that can be discussed throughout the coaching process and pivots can be made. It's like, actually, no, this this weekly. It's just too tight. Can we go to every other week? That would give me more time to work on it. Or actually I'd I'd love to have a, you know, a 15 minute touch base on this one between our other sessions. Great. Let's do it. Yeah. As we wrap up here, the Lightning Round question for you, Peter.[upbeat music] What's the one thing that a coachee, somebody who's preparing to be coached should do to optimize a coaching session? The one thing you can do to really optimize that coaching session is to put a little bit of thought, even if it's just a minute or two of what are some of the top priorities for you right now. And just just thinking through what do I want to get out of this coaching session? If you come in with that, it helps make things go even smoother because we're able to address those. Now, that's not always the case because life gets busy, but if you're able to put in that thought, then that sure helps to to flow along and it helps you own it, to own the process, so that would be my my suggestion. And for you, Daniel, what is one thing you would recommend a coachee you do right after a coaching session? Write it down.[laughing] So what what so what is one thing that a coachee should do right after a coaching session is to capture the follow up steps and actions in a written format. Coaching sessions are not just to have a feel good moment. They are intended to focus on action and follow up. There needs to be a level of accountability. There needs to be a level of movement. As a coachee, you want to make sure you are capturing the expectations and to-dos that frankly, you have recommended for yourself during the coaching process. Yes, the coach will have that as well, but you own it. You own that conversation, you're helping drive it. It is around your needs. So write it down. What are you gonna be doing and how are you gonna do it and what additional support you might need? It's really taking that ownership to take full advantage of all the all of the benefits of having a great coach with you. Good advice. OK, Peter, another great conversation as we've dived in today around all sorts of tools and ideas to help leaders be able to develop themselves and grow and be their best self every day. Listeners, we hope you've enjoyed this. We look forward to having you join us in future Leadership Growth Podcast episodes. Please comment on our YouTube channel as well as please subscribe in the future. We look forward to having you join in the future. 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