[upbeat music] Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast.[upbeat music] One of the exciting things is to see how new technologies can allow us to do more as you know, a leadership development specialist or training specialist. I tell the story often about we get a new tool for our tool belt. We can add something that allows us to do more. Well, AI to me is a power tool supreme that's going to really reshape not only leadership development, but everything we do at work, and as with any new technology, there's this fear of what's it going to do, take over humanity or is it going to become something that is an incredibly powerful tool that'll change everything that we do in business. I see AI as being a fundamental change that has many benefits, and it's to everybody's benefit if you are a leader to understand as much as you can about it, how to use it as an effective tool, and what to kind of stay away from and be wary of if you're out there and you're encouraging your team members to start to get involved in using these tools that come out daily, you know, dozens of them every day. So that's a little thing that I've learned along the way that, you know, is we're right now we got a little pin prick. It kind of burst the bubble a little bit, but that doesn't mean it's over. It means it's just in the early stages of beginning and I think that's exciting for leadership development and I think it's also exciting for any leader out there that has a team and you're trying to encourage them to try some of these new tools. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart joined with my brother Peter Stewart and today we are honored to have a very special guest. Frank Russell, Frank, welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast. Welcome, gentlemen. It's a pleasure to be here. Well, it's a it's a treat for us. Um, so before we dive a little bit more into the topic and in fact a Memory Lane with Frank, that's right. Let me just read a brief bio so that everybody can get to know him and all of his tremendous experience here. Frank Russell, CEO of Prositions, Inc, has over 40 years of experience as a speaker-trainer and talent development professional. He is also a serial entrepreneur, having founded four successful HR technology and training content companies. Frank's companies have won numerous awards, including ranking on the prestigious Inc. 500, 5000 lists of fastest growing companies in the US for seven consecutive years. Six years on the Software 500 list, and 14 Stevie awards for business innovation and excellence. Frank's current organization Prositions, Inc. is rapidly growing talent development company and partnered with Stewart Leadership, yes, Stewart Leadership, that's right, in the creation of the all-new LEAD NOW! leadership course. Again, welcome, Frank. Thank you, Daniel, and thank you, Peter. It's really a pleasure to be here today. I'm excited to talk about leadership and leadership development and some of the things that you guys are doing and that we've been doing in partnership, so exciting times. We're honored to have you, Frank. Thanks for joining. This will be a great, great episode. Thank you. And as we were chatting a little before we went on air, oftentimes when Peter and I are just chatting we will have a Memory Lane segment at a minute or two that we think about what it was like to grow up with John Parker Stewart, our dad as a consultant and coach, early days of leadership development. And thus we thought, you know, Frank, not only have have you been a great colleague, but a great friend to our family for 30, 40 plus years. I mean, this relationship has gone on for quite some time, and so I'll just share a brief memory—Okay and would love your reactions, Frank, to this.[upbeat music] I remember like when I was eight or like ten, seeing like training video catalogs and opening up to the first page. And there's a big picture of my dad right next to Tom Peters and Ken Blanchard and so many of these others, great thinkers, and we were like, wow, our dad does leadership training videos and and then he would say, yeah, I get to work with this great guy named Frank Russell. He's really clever and he helps produce all of these videos so that was our introduction, Frank, to leadership training and the video work that you and my our dad did as well. Those were the olden days, as we say, when when my hair was more like the color of your hair, probably, you know.[laughing] No, it is fun to go down memory lane and and and and and sort of, you know, look at the evolution of what has happened. We started working with your father. I think I received a um a videotape, kind of in the mail, you know, from somebody that says, hey, you got to take a look at this guy he's really great. And he happened to be giving this speech at NASA. And this was a year after the Challenger, you know, disaster that occurred. And it was really sort of getting NASA back in shape mentally and from a leadership perspective to“Return to Space” I think was the title of it or whatever. So I plugged that into what, you know, a VCR[laughing] and watched that tape and I was just really sort of enamored with, you know, his storytelling and speaking capability, obviously. And I just said to my colleagues, I said, we got to sign this guy up and see if we can, you know, first, maybe edit this and make a video out of it, but then talk to him about, you know, things that he's doing. And if we can, you know, turn that into a leadership development program, which we eventually did and then later, you know, linked up, because I always told your dad, I said, now you're going out speaking all over the country, John, but you got young kids like Daniel and Peter there, right? And what happens if you get hit by— you need to write a book. You know, you need to put all this stuff down. He said, yeah, yeah, Frank, I need to do it, I need to do it. So anyway, we go way back. I think that was in the 1980s and started to work on some leadership development programs that did extremely well for us and hopefully for you guys, too, but I truly understand growing up sort of in the shadow of that oak tree if you will, the foundational, you know, piece of Stewart Leadership. And I was just happy to be there at the time and make that relationship and then see you guys grow up. And as you know, I've had kids work in businesses that I've started. Tommy today out of New York City is doing it. It's just great to see the generations, you know, take over the reins and new things happen as the world continues to change.[chuckling] That's so true. It's been great. Oh, it's been a wonderful relationship and it was great getting to know Tommy and work with him closely as we just finished reshooting uh LEAD NOW! videos for the update that's coming out. And so his his high level of involvement in that level, that production. So let's let's dig now a little deeper into some of your experience that you bring us. You've you've been able to observe and to watch the training and development field for for many years now. And we first were able to to partner together back in what was about 2017 when we first produced the LEAD NOW! course and you've been distributing those for several years. Mm hmm. Based on your experience and your observations, like where do you see the future of leadership development heading? What where is it trending? Well, you know, that that's a great question. And um you're right. Having been— that was kind of like the second relationship with, you know, Stewart Leadership when you guys had written the books and come out with the new model, the LEAD NOW! model and everything. And we sort of reconnected. I'd gone off and done some different kinds of things, but, you know, there there's exciting things happening today, changes, you know, moving at warp speed, new technologies are changing everything. And who would have even thought, you know, five years ago, that something called artificial intelligence would bloom and start to take off and, you know, all the the you know, the hype and the the glory around all of that other stuff would happen. Uh, so I think, and this is something that I've tried to do my entire career. I mentioned back when we plugged the tape of your father in it. You know, that was half inch VHS technology and having lived through different technology shifts, moving from that. That was pre-internet, you know, that was even pre-DVD, those kinds of things. One of the exciting things is to see how new technologies can allow us to do more as, you know, a leadership development specialist or training specialist. I tell the story often about we get a new tool for our tool belt. We can add something that allows us to do more. Well, AI to me as a power tool supreme that's going to really reshape not only leadership development, but everything we do at work, and as with any new technology, there's this fear of what's it going to do, take over humanity, or is it going to become something that is an incredibly powerful tool that'll change every thing that we do in business. And I think there's, you know, some things in the middle there that we have to take a look at so yeah, I'm excited about it. I think technology has been one of those things that I've always tried to innovate and push the envelope on, you know, people that, you know, you know, I've started multiple companies. Almost all of those have been based on some new evolution of technology that has occurred, like the Internet. So we got involved in creating a learning management system platform and got involved with all of that. And, you know, so now with this latest iteration, you know, everybody's talking about it, we can mention it here. What's going to happen with DeepSix, uh DeepSeek, I mean, you know, and and all this new things that are coming about. And I go like, well, you know, as great as artificial intelligence is, or something that, you know, that comes along this called wisdom. And it's kind of like, it may not seem logical, but if you live long enough, you'll recognize some trends that seem to be repeating themselves. And what I saw with the a few years ago with artificial intelligence, and we've been working with it for three years now to develop content in the early early days, I mean, the Wild West of AI, was this hype that came around it that basically, as soon as that got out, all this investment dollar started to pour in, the trillions of dollars, what was happening within Nvidia and all this other stuff. And I said, this has the classic symptoms of a bubble, and a bubble means that everybody gets really enamored with it, they pour a lot of money into it, in order to get that money, you create part of the hype, and then all of a sudden, you know, there's a pin prick that comes along and that bubble bursts. Yup. Well, that's kind of what's happening right now at Deep, you know, DeepSeek. Somebody came along like the Chinese. They did something cheaper, you know, maybe not better, but at least a lot less expensively from a hardware and a software standpoint. And verybody's now scrambling, markets are crumbling, and all this stuff is happening. That's simply an adjustment that you can expect when you see a bubble happen. It happened with the Internet. When I first launched a company I had before this one, you know, everybody was calling your dot-com. So we had geolarning.com. And then when that bubble burst, everybody took the dot-com off their name or whatever. But the exciting thing is, I see AI as being a fundamental change that has many benefits, and it's to everybody's benefit if you are a leader, to understand as much as you can about it, how to use it as an effective tool, and what to kind of stay away from and be wary of if you're out there and you're encouraging your team members to start to get involved in using these tools that come out daily, you know, dozens of them every day. So that's a little thing that I've learned along the way that, you know, is we're right now we got a little pin prick. It kind of burst the bubble a little bit, but that doesn't mean it's over. It means it's just in the early stages of beginning, and I think that's exciting for leadership development and I think it's also exciting for any leader out there that has a team and you're trying to encourage them to try some of these new tools. Building on that, Frank, as leaders look at these different technologies and tools like AI, and no matter if it's the bubble or the pin prick, what the residue kind of is after the fact, what's your guidance to leaders in terms of how they might leverage some of this technology? What what how can they play with it? What kind of value can they leverage? What what what do you seeing from that? What can they do with it at the moment? Well, I I think that's, you know, you've kind of hit the nail on the head there a little bit about the to go out and play with it. In other words, experiment, try it out. Not only that as a leader encourage your people to do it, but to do it, you know, safely and not to go out and, and do things where you basically let AI take over and there's no human interference with it. And I know you guys have been working with Harmonic AI to develop the platform Stewy, which we're very excited about. You know, we as a process of releasing training content like the all new LEAD NOW! program, think that, you know, the ability to have a coach, a leadership coach who can help guide you in your development process, whether that's the supervisor or it's a third party or it's an AI agent like Stewy, this can, you know, be very, very exciting. And what I like about the model that you guys have created, you know, with Harmonic AI is there's a certain safety net there, and that safety net is, what you guys have done with your dad over the decades has created this incredible database of knowledge. It's knowledge based on your consulting experience, your articles you've written, all this other stuff, and you have this giant, you know, reservoir of this knowledge, and now the technology will allow you, I think safely to grab that without going out to the Wild West of all the data that's out there that may or may not be, you know, as reliable or whatever, and to rely on that to then leverage, you know, AI as a partner, as an agent. It's I always think about it as I've got this little friend sitting next to me. We can call him Stewy. We can call him ChatGPT. We can call him, you know, whatever you want to call him or her. But the reality is if you know how to work with that person, it's kind of like having a new member of your team. And then that member of your team can help leverage your effectiveness, you know, it can leverage your productivity and it can allow your team members to do much more than they could with fewer resources. It doesn't mean we got to lay everybody off because I believe the key to all of this is that human interaction that helps guide that experience. I mean, it'd be great. I hear all the hype out there like, all you got to do is put in an idea and the training video comes out here. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. It still takes a lot of work, a lot of ingenuity, a lot of creativity, a lot of things that artificial intelligence doesn't do well, and then it needs that human interaction just to check it to make sure everything is an alignment with what you know from a wisdom standpoint is the way that knowledge should be transferred. So I think it's exciting because we get a new member of our team, a new tool on our tool belt, but I also think we have to be cautious and make sure we're doing it safely. We have some guardrails around it. But if we do that, we can be better at leadership development and we can also be better at leading teams too. Yeah. Those are some really excellent points, Frank, because you're talking about the experimentation of of trying things out, understanding the parameters, the, you know, the safe areas that you can play in that might put your, you know, minimize the level of risk associated with that, but then expanding as that comfort level grows. The the latter point you were making about that intersection between human interaction and technology. Yeah. And especially when it comes to development and how over reliance on technology might be problematic, over reliance exclusively just on people might be problematic. Yeah. What advice would you give in terms of finding that that balance, that happy medium? Where really can technology help and where do you continue to need that human touch? That's a good question. I think that like, you know, like we've been indicating here, it's time to go and take a little test drive. Let's go out and kick the tires. Let's experiment first and see what we feel the capabilities are and then we can encourage our team members to go out and experiment it with it too. So I think the key here is three years ago, when we saw AI just coming on, you know, as a tool that could be used for training video development or whatever, I went out, found a couple of companies and started working with them. One was a company called Synthesia. They've grown like gangbusters. I think they're out of the UK. Another one was a little one out of China that was called HeyGen. And I'll never forget I was really enamored with the results I was getting by putting text in and getting an avatar to speak back that looked pretty real, you know. And so I kept playing around with that and I started to create a series of training videos and halfway through, like halfway through the week, the whole site went down and there was no way you could contact them. There was nothing you could do. So I'm halfway through a project and I can't finish it. And the only customer support they had out there was a website, like a social media site, where other customers came on and said, well, this is how we fixed this problem and this is how we fixed this problem. So so that was the early days of the Wild West. So I I would encourage people to go out and kick the tires, research, learn about it, practice with it. Don't go out and release it to your clients. Don't go put your proprietary, you know, marketing information in the engine yet. Take one of those high benefit areas but low risk areas. And that's one of the things I think is neat about Stewy is because it's a high benefit low risk area. Why do I say that? Well, you know, maybe someday your organization or your team wants to put something into an engine, you know, there could be a large language model and it could be, you know, going to your customers or whatever. But that can be risky because you've got customer relationships, client relationships, the legal framework out there is still being, you know, resolved because lawyers are about a year behind intellectual property, you know, advancements or whatever. But if you take something that has a well-proven database of knowledge and information, it's been well beta tested and you start there with your leaders, you know, and then you begin to expand and say, wow, that worked for us. You know, we've experimented now with six months or a year. Let's expand that to put our own data information in there. Maybe it can move from leadership coaching to just general employee coaching, or maybe it can then be expanded to other areas of our business model. So I would say, go out, test drive, kick the tires, learn what you can. There's so many courses that are out there that are free that you can take. It can almost be overwhelming. But pick your battles, try something out, talk to people who've used some of these tools, and then just get in and try them out and then expose them to your team so that they can go on and expand beyond what you're doing into other areas that are safe and have guardrails, but still you get the benefit out of these. And and I've done that with my team. You know, we started doing this a year ago and I I had people I had to kind of kick and drag to do the stuff and now they're using they move far beyond what I'm doing because they've they now have kicked the tires experimented with stuff and they're out there running. You know that's what you want as a leader, you know? I just got the ball rolling. You guys are going to run with the ball, you know, as we say in the training program, you know, give them the ball and let them run with it. That's basically what you do when you're introducing new technology like this. Yeah. And and with this experimentation idea, how do we balance our expectations around that? Because I I think because AI, especially generative AI, is so unknown and yet it can offer so much hope and so many possibilities, it's clearly more than a chatbot or some sort of database to just get information. It can synthesize. It can come out with new and interesting ideas that it's combined together. Yes. And at the same time, we might have this expectation of immediacy that we expect something instantly. How do we balance this? Because it goes back to the old adage, you know, speed, cost and quality. Pick two. You usually can't have all three. So how do we balance, especially as we're experimenting, experimenting with our own leadership development effort as we then look as applying AI, how do we balance some of these expectations as we're experimenting as we develop ourselves? You know, that's good too. I mean, the way I I I sort of went about it was to sit there and say, okay, where's kind of the low hanging fruit? Where can I improve my efficiency? So I would go out and use a tool like ChatGPT and I'd say, okay. um I looked at some of the data and everything else. I think we want to create a training product, but I need to generate some ideas. So I would start to generate ideas using, you know, ChatGPT or, you know, you could use Claud or other, you know, technologies. Then it would get down to, okay, now I've got a great outline here for a training video. It's done some research. That's great. What I want to do now is kind of let that, you know, write a script for me and see how that goes. So you do that. And then I'd go over and use another engine I'd use Grammarly, you know, because it had a great feature, you know, this about a year ago where it could go out and check uh for plagiarism, you know, that was a big thing, you know, are our students going to go and write their papers on these things? And you know, well, you know, probably or whatever. But it would go and check millions of sites to see if that information that you were going to put in that training video was going to be unique. And you didn't want to infringe on anybody else's copyright. And because you weren't going out and doing the actual research, it would give you citations but, you know, it would check all of that stuff for you. And so I kept looking at this and saying step by step incrementally, I'm going to improve the capability of what I'm working on. I'm not going to dive in head first and just let it run away, you know, and go crazy, but as you, you know, very carefully give it more information, learn how to do the prompts, learn how the tools could work together or do whatever, you can begin to come up with something that's good, but it would always take human interaction. And I think the other thing is to understand that there's a lot of fear around interacting with this new technology. There as with any technology, I remember when we released a learning management system and we created this interface it looked like an actual training center. We used to call it instead of bricks and mortar facility, like a training center, we used to call it clicks and mortar facility because we actually used architectural, you know, room diagrams. You could go into a training room. We did all of that because we knew HR professionals were scared to death of this thing called the Internet and technology. But if they could see a picture of it that looked just like something they were familiar with, it would make that technology more palatable. So human interaction is still incredibly important. I've not seen anything where I can just let it run and generate stuff that I would send to a customer or, you know, go out. I need to look at it, but it's getting better and better. And one of the big tests that came out recently is we would send some of the videos we created using artificial intelligence to some very sophisticated distributors and resellers. And I'll never forget this one woman coming back and she said I'm just checking here, I need to know, did you... is this a real person or is this some kind of artificial intelligence? And I said, thank you very much. You just validated something for me because you couldn't tell the difference, you know. And you're a pretty you know, sophisticated video producer or distributor or whatever. So I think experimenting, not losing the human touch, even if it could you could let go of the bicycle seat, understand that people are going to be somewhat reluctant and reticent, so help them overcome that bridge and be that human interaction, that human interface that makes sure that whatever you're recommending or whatever it is recommending, that basically it's solid and and you've done your check with that and that you've helped introduce it to people who may be somewhat reluctant or reticent to want to, you know, use that technology. And that's kind of what when I we did our beta testing for Stewy, I'm going to do a trade secret here. I was going to say, okay, I'm going to get in some questions that I know are really tough for a real leadership coach and I want to see how Stewy does it. This is a progression. So we put some questions I sent him to you guys and you saw the answers, which I was very impressed with Stewy's responses. But it first started out, I've got an employee who's been really great in the past and now he's coming and he's tardy. He's late, okay? So Stewy gave me some recommendations what to do. I then sat down with that person and, you know, I gave him that feedback. Now the next thing happened is, okay, it worked for a little while, but now he's starting to miss some dates, so now he's not showing up for work. So I dig a little deeper, find out this person's going through a divorce, that he has childcare responsibilities, all this other stuff going on. And then finally, I go to a sort of what I call a tertiary stage to say, okay, how how nice is Stewy going to be or when is Stewy gonna say, you better bring in legal an HR here because we're we're stepping into some stuff. And by gosh, it did it because I said, and now I had my meeting with them. I had a conversation and I smelled alcohol on his breath, you know. So when you do that sort of thing and you test those engines out and you come back and say, you know what, that that did just about as good as I would have done if I was a coach. But here's what here's the kicker for us. When we introduce this new technology, we're going to have a human being introduce that technology to them, not just read about it, go on your own and you're basically, we've let go of the bicycle seat and running. We're going to have human contact there, but the difference is something like Stewy is available 24/7, 365, anytime I need help, so it's 3 o'clock in the morning and I'm afraid I'm going to have a problem the next day. I can use a tool like Stewy. I could never get that responsiveness from a live coach, so you combine those things together and look what we've done. We've made a quantum leap in leadership coaching in my opinion. Yeah. And there's some great nuggets you were just sharing there, Frank, in terms of our thoughts and and how really when we help with adoption. So I want to just pull out one you were sharing that's really powerful. Back when you were talking about the click and mortar idea and that adoption. And when you're able to pair a new technology on top of something that's already familiar, how that helps increase people's tendency to want to use it. I'm reminded of, you know, the history with Steve Jobs and Apple computers. Why is it called an Apple computer? Because they wanted this to be feel friendly, familiar, something useful that didn't feel foreign. And that same principle applies as we're looking at the future of technology. So we've talked about AI a lot and and lots of opportunities. I I want us to just pivot a little bit to talk about this area of development that has come up quite a bit over the last few years, but not everybody has heard of it. And it's this idea of nano technology, nano-learning. I know this is a field that you've really gotten deep into. Can you share a little bit more about what's meant by that and how leaders might be able to leverage that? Sometimes people call me Mr. Nano, you know, and and so if you understand the history behind this a little bit, there's a Memory Lane thing. Uh several years ago, we introduced with uh the LEAD NOW! model, the original one in 2017, what we called micro learning. And that was right at a time when YouTube was, you know, taking off and becoming, you know, so popular and uh eventually became what I think is kind of the greatest training site there is, where if you have any issue, you can go out there if you want to cook something, fix a dishwasher or whatever it is, you can get all that in for information there. But so we were pioneering with that program, micro learning. A couple of years ago, you know, I mentioned my son, Tommy in in in New York City, we started to look at the market and, you know, maybe you were like I was where I started to get enamored with uh, you know, Instagram and TikTok and all these new technologies. And and the reality was you start to look at the new generation that's entering the workforce and they're not using computers. They're using their mobile devices. So this whole thing about nano-learning is if we if we want to communicate with the next generation of leaders and learners out there, we need to deliver training in a way that they want to receive it, right? You know, send an email out to your audience and see how many people that are young don't respond, but the moment you text them or put them in a Slack message or whatever, they're right there. Communication has changed fundamentally, so I'm always a big believer and looking at how is this new generation entering the workforce? How are they communicating? What tools are they using to play games and have fun or whatever because that's going to impact your effectiveness in terms of development or training or whatever. Can we make it more convenient and more acceptable to this next generation of learner? And and my take on this is, and you've seen us with the creation of a new little company called Easy Peasy Videos is that you can use, even though it's very, very short, you're talking about 45 seconds to a minute, you know, how can you train anybody in that that time frame? And yet now I get these videos about from your dad traveling all over the world, you know? He's standing in front of, you know, the the the childhood home of George Washington or he's, you know, in South America, you know, he's doing what he's always done, which is taking these stories and telling these stories. He's just condensed them down. So they're very, very short. And I think this whole idea is, we need to make learning more convenient for the learner. And that means delivering in different ways. Josh Bersin, you know, the great analyst in HR, said, you know, a few years ago, we need to put learning in the flow of work, which is, and I built them, you know, these big LMSs where we sign in and do all this other stuff and everything else. But the reality is we need to adapt technology, use technology, to leverage it so that, hey, if I'm using Slack every day, I don't go out and use email anymore and this other stuff. Can we put that training message very short, nuggetized in a way that it isn't I don't even have to turn my phone this way. I can just swipe like I'm using TikTok or Instagram and I can get the content and the message delivered that way. Now we are adapting the technology, using the technology to be more effective with our training delivery. So that's why I come in and say, I don't know what's going to happen in the world or anything else. I don't know what's going to happen with TikTok and all this other stuff. I just know this. There's a new generation of learners. That's how they learn. They learn on their mobile devices and I think that's going to be a wave for the future and we need to take our content and make it accessible to those people. So accessibility, you know, and convenience is incredibly important to me. Yeah. So let's let's sum this up with a quick Lightning Round question for you, Frank. So here's the question. What what's the one thing that a leader can do to leverage some of this new emerging technology, AI, et cetera, to best help themselves, themselves develop? What's the one thing they can do? Well, I think, you know, we've kind of stated it or at least danced around it here. I think that is to get out and learn everything you can, especially about some of these new tools, like artificial intelligence, and how do you how to adapt those to make you more, you know, effective, to make you more effective. And to me, one of the things I saw when I started to do this a few years ago was, I've got to get my team, you know, comfortable with it. You know, I got to get them experimenting with it because I think when they get into it they're going to have remember the old commercial about tomato juice. I should have had a V8, you know? They have this aha moment. And I saw it happen to Robin, who's the president of our organization. I've seen it happen to Jill, who's the head of marketing and sales. They went and and they they said, I just typed this in and I got this beautiful document out, you know, wow. And it's like, yeah, I've only been saying that for six months, but I'm glad you discovered it, you know, kind of thing. So I think our role as a leader is to experiment, to see how we can use a lot of these tools, nano-learning, whatever it is. And one of the things I'm excited about is this new, all new LEAD NOW! program that we're just introducing. We've taken almost everything we've talked about here, AI, nano-learning, micro learning, assessment technology, Peter, you know, and and amped that up. So we've really made it so that today the leader, you know, is going to have a much better experience when they want to go in and and be developed and learn and making it adaptive, which is what I've always loved about the LEAD NOW! model is, you know, you got a small organization. I got one cohort of 20 people. Some of these people have 20 years of experience as a leader, some of them are just being promoted. How do we train those people in the same class or in the same group or whatever? But what, you know, you guys have figured out and in conjunction with uh, you know, great instructional design and assessments, we can create adaptive learning where people can get what they need in an individual sense and also you can get it for the team too. So solving some of those really difficult problems makes me excited about leadership development, makes me excited about what the future holds. But you know, the one thing is get in and get dirty. Try it out. Learn from experience. Read everything you can because these tools will shape the future of business, the future of government and everything we do, and if you're not learning about it you will be, you know, you'll be passed over by people who do know how to use these tools. And you know what? When you get into it, it's not as scary as it seems if you're totally unfamiliar with it.[laughing] Oh, that's well stated. Frank, thank you so much for being a guest on the Leadership Growth Podcast today. It's been a pleasure. Well, thank you so much. You know I'm a fan of your your podcast and all the information. You know, it's been a it's been a great experience over the generations working with Stewart Leadership and I look forward to the future and how new generations in both of our families can take over and continue on with the great work that's being done with, you know, leadership development, so thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Absolutely. And to all of our listeners, thank you for joining another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast where we talk about tools and ideas to help you build and strengthen your leadership capability. Please subscribe and also email us, reach out and let us know what questions we can answer in the future, put some notes in, and we would love to answer your future questions. All the best, take care everyone, until next time. 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