[upbeat music] Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast.[upbeat music][upbeat music] The executive presence... in some ways, get rid of the word executive. It's your leadership presence.—Mm hmm. It's how you show up as a leader and that can apply to any level of leader. It could apply to an 18 year old who's starting off with a leadership journey, or has been given a leadership role, or this could be a 60, 65, you know, whatever it is, middle aged, it could be 90, it could... any age. Any level. It is that question of how do you show up in a way that others can see you as credible, as confident, as being able to be followed?[upbeat music] Hey, everyone, welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast, a podcast dedicated to be able to help you gain tools and ideas to help you be the best leader every day. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined with my wonderful brother Peter Stewart. Peter, you want to say hi?[laughing] I'll say hi and and thanks for saying I'm wonderful. That's great of you. And you always— You always do such a great job kicking off the show, so thank you. Gosh, thanks. Okay. Anyway, so yes, we're your hosts and today we're excited to talk about a very important topic. It's kind of like this mystery topic of leadership, executive presence. What does it mean? What does it look like? How do we define it? We may actually spend a few episodes talking through this but today we're going to talk about the foundation of how to look at it, what it means, what are the important parts of it. But before we get to that, Peter, is there an interesting Insight of the Week that you you'd like to share?[upbeat music] Yeah, I'll share an insight. So a buddy of mine texted this to me. He'd heard it off of a podcast. And it's always nice when you have friends who are sharing content with you and and good tips. I've got some good, good friends that we share things with. And the insight was from the Stanford, president of Stanford, John Levin or Levine. And it was a story he'd shared that his chief of staff had made a comment saying, “you're kind of like a T-Rex.”[laughing] So this is the President of Stanford, his chief of staff calling him a T-Rex. And he's like, what do you mean? What do you mean? And they said,“well, you have short arms,”“meaning you really can't do a whole lot yourself, just like a T-Rex.”“But with one swipe of your tail,”“you can wipe out the time, effort, energy,”“and motivation of so many.” And that metaphor really caused me to stop and think as leaders, wow, some of those unintended consequences of our swift actions, and what result that brings. So that T-Rex metaphor really stood out.—This is so good. Please forgive me. All I'm picturing is the the T- Rex from Toy Story and what is it, he's like, “I can't handle confrontation!”[laughing] —Exactly. And he has the small little arms, and just to imagine so many leaders, they can do with some things with their arms,—Yeah. but they're not really in the position, and they're not supposed to, like be the active doer. They're supposed to have and support others. And so... and yet their tail, if they move in wrong ways, if they don't remove other obstacles and they become an obstacle themselves, they can wipe out. It reminds me of one of the best adages years ago that I heard, which was, as a leader, the best thing you can do is set clear expectations and guidelines and get out of people's way to allow them to do their job.—Yeah. Oh, that's great advice, because in many ways, a leader takes up a lot of space. Like when you just think about the influence, how everybody's watching them, there's like this extra aura of ooh, is the boss watching or what are they going to say or what's the critique? So there's just this prowess, this, this uh they just fill up so much more. And so it's being aware of that. And I think it dovetails nicely into this conversation of presence, of influence, that a leader has as we build into that topic.—Yeah. You know, it's interesting just this morning I got a call from a executive that I'm coaching. She's over a large business unit and she was struggling with her head of marketing. And she been wanting some other consulting firms to come in and give them lots of ideas, and she hasn't really been coordinating with the head of marketing about this. And understandably, the head of marketing is kind of questioning how much confidence she has in him. And in saying, hey, you're going out for all of this other ideas. You aren't including me necessarily getting my input in a way that's conducive for him. And this is actually one of the topics we then talked about, which was, what can you do as a business unit leader to be able to convey a sense of confidence in your team, in your marketing leader? In other words, how do you get out of the way? How do you establish clear expectations, express confidence, and then get out of the way and let the marketing leader do his job, and that might be interacting with consultants, but in a way that he feels good because he's the guy you got to go to first. So anyway, it's this interesting way how it can show up, but so much of leadership is setting those clear expectations and get out of the way and not screwing things up.—Yeah. It's really well put. And so I think if as listeners are thinking about this metaphor of the T- Rex, they leave a big impression or they can and it's being careful where they go because you can't go silently.[laughing] You can't inch around quietly.[laughing] There's... it's make, you know, set those guidelines, set the limits, and then go leave. Bye.—Yeah. Get out of there. Let them do their job. They're going to learn, they're going to work. Many times they're going to surprise you. But if you're not even giving them that space to do it, where's the opportunity for growth?—Yeah. And interestingly enough, I think it's a good segue, into the topic at hand as we think of this term executive presence. Okay, Peter, so when I say executive presence what comes to your mind? What are, what are things, what are factors, what are... what's the image that comes to your mind? Well, I immediately think of how the terms evolved over the last many years, because so much of that as we think 10 plus years ago, it was so focused on, really just how you look. How you appear, like do you look the part of a leader? Do you look the part of an executive? Are you dressing a certain way? Are you modeling that a certain way? And like that's really in many ways what it was kind of had boiled down to of just, all right. Do you look the part? And how that has evolved, especially as the definition of what does a leader look like, you know, has expanded so much more within organizations, within individuals, within cultures, within perspectives, to allow for much more diversity among that. And so it's broadened this concept into much more than just, oh, do I look like an executive? Because there's kind of this stuffy[laughing] feel to it that doesn't fit in every organization or for every person.—Yeah. You know, it's interesting as I think of executive presence, yes, it's changed over the years. I also think people think of presentation skills.—Yes. How do... how does somebody stand in front of a group and present and speak? And it's that executive presence, yes, so that you can command a room, so to speak, that you can have people's attention on you and you can then influence and persuade in helpful ways and to be able to move things and to move people. And yes, it matters how you look because we as humans, we use that external look as such, such important attributes to help us determine if we belong, if we can connect, if we like them, if they like us. All of these things that yes, are an important part of human nature that can run amok at times, and we have to watch and guard ourselves against it. But the reality is it's only a small part of what executive presence really is, this X factor, this charisma, this confidence level that others can look, listen, hear, engage with the person and say, yes, that person is a leader.—Yeah. And that word you just used there, charisma, I think at times can be used as a synonym for executive presence. Mistakenly so, because there is so much more. And it's not just that one, you know, charismatic, extroverted way of leading that so many leaders throughout, you know, whether it's media or history have been put on a pedestal of they're a great leader because they can do this. Sure, if you have that skill, leverage it, but not everybody has to be able to do that.—Yeah.—Yeah. So as we expand this executive presence focus of like, let's talk more about ways in which we've defined it, the way we look at executive presence, because it pulls at so many different areas. And we've built a framework to really help explain that a little bit more in a more modern context. So Daniel, why don't you kick off and kind of where where that takes us? Yeah, and the origins of this framework that we'll share, how we look in our point of view on executive presence really comes from years and years of working with executives. This model and framework was developed as we then coached so many executives, and in fact, at all different levels. And that's something I wanted to hit on as well. Peter, you've described even in the last five minutes or so multiple times. this, you know, if you're an executive, this is what it might look like. I want to challenge and expand that. This executive presence in some ways, get rid of the word executive. It's your leadership presence.—Mm hmm. It's how you show up as a leader and that can apply to any level of leader. It can apply to an 18 year old who's starting off on the leadership journey, or has been given a leadership role, or this could be a 60, 65, you know, whatever it is, middle aged, it could be 90. it could— any age, any level, it is that question of how do you show up in a way that others can see you as credible, as confident, as being able to be followed? And so four different factors we find that play a role in helping determine your ability to influence, to be seen as this confident leader, confident leader, and this first one is where we've been chatting because it is a factor and and it's how you show up. Yes, it's how you appear and how you listen, how you communicate. All of these things are critical, and the second is really all about how you decide, how you decide, how you take input from others, how you manage consensus, how you react to different, differing opinions, and problem solve. How you decide really matters, and how do you know how to flex between authoritative points and consultative approach or consensus? The third area around defining executive or leadership presence is really how you manage your emotions. And this is something over the past few decades that has been given a lot more attention. How you manage your emotions, how you manage your own reactions. And that is such a vital piece of that emotional intelligence part so that you could you can manage your own approach and adapt it and adjust it to the other person instead of just thinking about you.—Mm hmm. So it's other focused. And then the fourth area is really about how you inspire. How do you help somebody connect with a purpose greater than than themselves and want to keep exerting their energy and effort into something that's bigger than themselves. And they can then voluntarily take their effort and energy and put it towards something, and not just for themselves, but something bigger. So these four areas. How you show up, how you decide how you manage your emotions, and how you inspire is our point of view on helping to broaden the definition of what executive presence, leadership presence, really looks like as well.—Yeah. And as you summarize those really well, and we can take a little time to kind of dive into each one of those four areas briefly as we talk about it. But as listeners are hearing that, it's a time for you to reflect on your own experience on what are these areas? How does this fit with your perspective on what it means to have leadership presence and influence? You know, how does this jive with where you're you're definition might be? So let's dig in a little bit as we think about this first quadant, as we'll call it, how you show up. Because, yes, it does matter. And there are a couple areas that all often work with as I'm coaching leaders, as I'm leading and facilitating trainings in this area. And the first is to really think about your own leadership brand. It's that it's how you want to be perceived. What does leadership mean to you? And in all areas around that? And then the second would be is helping to ensure that your your image is helping to be consistent with your message.—Mm hmm. The last thing you want is to distract from the message you're trying to convey because of some other behavior or attire or other things that you might be doing or wearing inadvertently that is now undermining the credibility of what you're trying to communicate. So it's really trying to own that image, claim it as your authentic you.[laughing] There's not a cookie cutter mold of what a leader is supposed to look like or act like. It's you. It's authentic you, and then helping to ensure that as you are communicating, you are not doing things to distract from that message that you are trying to convey. This point of distraction is such an important one to be able to then check yourself. You want to be able to convey messages that are clear and understood. And those messages aren't necessarily needed to be understood by you. Well, sure, at some point, but no.[laughing]—You don't want to confuse yourself. Yeah, but it's far more focused on the other. And the other could be 100 people. It could be four people, it could be 15. And each of those people are going to be coming at it from a different perspective. The point is to put yourself in their position and to see what will help them connect and understand to be able to act on, to be able to go a little deeper and take with what... take what you want to say, and do something with it, and I'll often use the word currency. What is the currency that is valued by the audience that you're speaking to? And how do you then buy in to that currency, utilize that currency as well? If folks are very analytical, we need to be able to buy in and use the currency of highly analytical. If folks are really focused on the latest fashion, for example. I used to work for a department store and it was really important how you dressed because it was the industry they were in, okay? Not right or wrong, it just mattered. Now, other industries, other situations, that's not even a factor. It's other factors. It's really looking to see what matters. Now, I'll just say this, and Peter, I want to get your thoughts on authenticity.—Yeah. Because we're going to be going in and out of this word authentic and helping people be their authentic self. Now, that can both be inspiring and really, really burdensome if you don't feel you're being authentic. And what I often will explain to clients is, let's not just view yourself as one person, like one type or one approach. We all have a variety of approaches and a variety of different ways of acting. Let us pick the part that makes the most sense to help get something accomplished. Now checking with yourself, though, that it's still consistent with your values. So it's really a a subtlety, but it's important to be able to be true to your values yes, and also recognizing what aspect of yourself do you want to allow to shine forth so that you can then influence others effectively?—Yeah. And that really, I think a key part that I think can be confused at times of what does authenticity mean? Is authenticity synonymous meaning I will be the same in all contexts and all situations. And I would argue that that actually is not helpful. In fact, that's not adaptive in the world around us. Authenticity is making sure that our behaviors are always in agreement with our core principles and values.—Mmm. That is how we act authentically. The behaviors that are displayed may vary based on the context. And that is not being an authentic. That is helping you progress. to move forward, to be able to do what you need to do to be successful. So that I think is a good one to dig into a little bit more is recognizing context switching. We do this throughout our life. You know, the way we might act hanging out with our friends might be different than the way we act in a boardroom.[laughing] Or in a job interview. Or as we're visiting grandparents or I don't know, you know, it's okay to adjust that. We want to help ensure that we're we are intentional about the behaviors that we are displaying so that it helps us, especially when we're talking about a leadership capacity, that back to an earlier point, it's not distracting from our core message, but it's actually helping to reinforce it.—Yeah. Great, great points. And you know, one prime example is when a leader is choosing to manage or coach. And those are often two different styles, manage meaning, telling, guiding, directing, versus coaching, which is often usually more participative, asking lots of questions, being a little bit more curious. Both of those are needed at different points. And sometimes a person can be like,“yes, but I'm guiding, I'm directing, I'm telling them what to do.”“That's what I need to be doing.”“And that's all I need to be, you know, that's my main focus.” And that's the... that's the time out that I would assert to say, actually, that is a legitimate role, a perspective of you. What about also the coaching, the curiosity, the asking of questions, the pausing and the reflecting. You want to balance and you want to utilize both and know how to flex back and forth, just as an example as we're all looking to use that those core values that we have and see how they show up so yes, that's really the beginning part around executive presence of how you show up. Now, the trick, though is it's not just how you show up. There are so many other elements to that, that presence, that charisma, or I don't even want to say charisma, that— that's confusing as we've clarified that confidence so that others see you as credible. So Peter, this next this next one around decision making, walk us through how do we view that and how does that impact presence? Well, it's coming down to... one of the key fundamental roles of a leader is to make a decision. Like leaders must make decisions. That's why they're in that position of leadership. So it's understanding one, that that is a key part, then it's also understanding how one is doing that, you know, and the impact of those decisions because we're trying to get things done. We're trying to look at outcomes. We're trying to help guide and lead and progress toward the future to these objectives and goals and focus areas. We have to know how we're making those decisions along the way, how we're prioritizing our efforts, our helping to prioritize the efforts of others, aligning resources and other things. So with this area of thinking about, from that perspective, yeah an entire quadrant of our framework is focused on how one makes those decisions because of hum we're trying to get people uh to not only agree. We want to get them bought in. We want to get them doing what we need them to do. And we can alienate them based on how those decisions are made or we can, we can get a whole bunch of willing followers based on that. So that's just a kind of a quick overview of what can come into that how do we make decisions aspect. But you think of all the decisions you make as a leader every day.[laughing] It's all about both individually and for your team or organization. You know, I often think of decisions as the unit of analysis for leaders. So put in another way, you know, when you watch a football game, what's the unit of analysis that of measurement that we usually look for, and it's yards. Everything is yards. They have a hundred yards or 10 yards for a first down or how many— it's yards. What can we do to move the ball in so many yards? For leaders it's all about decisions. What are the decisions you're making? What are the decisions that you're inviting others into to provide input to help make? What are the decisions that you're making together? How do you manage all of this? And there's another aspect within the decision making process, and it's not just gathering different perspectives and assessing finding the problem, yes, and implementing it. It's also managing the flow of the work, the flow of the number of decisions, and that gets at how do you manage distractions and managing your overall energy and your overall workflow itself, so that you can actually be in positions to make good decisions and understand the process through which you can choose how to get things done and how to move things forward as well so this unit of analysis around deciding and how you show up with the decision process is so key to helping you be seen as a credible, confident leader. And that phrase we keep saying as being seen as a credible, confident leader. It allows others to believe in you, to follow where you're going. That's what you want to happen as a leader. As we're talking about this decision making process I'm reminded of a team I was working with just a few weeks ago. And we were talking about their decision making process, helping them understand to be more intentional about it. And they had a heightened aha, almost collective —you could see it go off[laughing] across the room as they realized how much they over relied on the consensus style of decision making.—Oh, yeah. This team, they wanted everybody to feel comfortable. They wanted— but it slowed down their progress significantly. And so we then were able to get into a really helpful conversation to say, what are those decisions in which we really do need a consensus basis and what are the decisions we don't? You know, does it really matter what color coffee cups are in the break room?[laughing] Like, does everybody need to vote? Now, I laugh and for some situations, maybe that is a really important thing. But it's helping to gauge that and to be aware of that, and to be intentional about the decisions we're using or, sorry, the decisions we're making and the styles of decision making were choosing to exercise.—Yeah. And having, I'll often say the leadership muscle to know how it went to flex—Yeah. based upon the types of decisions and how you then react to the feedback to the input you're getting as a leader. How consistent are you? All of these things really enable somebody to look at you and have that perception of oh yeah, I can trust you. I can rely upon you. I can follow you. You're predictable in ways that I can understand. And so much of this is perception, yes. That's how we as humans use it, that's what we see. That's what we act on. And we as leaders need to actively manage those perceptions so that we can get great things done in helpful ways that are aligned to the business and are consistent with our values. So Peter, here's my recommendation. Let's kind of pause here and we'll be able to dive into the other two parts of the model, really the managing emotions and inspiring others in our next episode. So we'll have a two-parter on this one, all with the goal of being able to define and understand executive presence.[upbeat music] As we're kind of wrapping up, Peter, what, what's the takeaway? What's the thing that somebody can start to do with some of this information for themselves? Yeah, I think one of the best things they can do is to help have a mental shift from executive presence, one, to expand what that really means, and to almost use a synonym to replace, say, this is how you establish professional credibility. That's where we're really moving. These are all ways in which you help ensure that the words you say are credible. The decisions you're making are credible. The actions you're taking are— that people believe you and they want to follow you. And so that's, I think, another way to really look at this perspective as we're talking about the various behaviors and ways to do it. It establishes credibility as a leader.—Love it. Peter, always a pleasure chatting. Thanks so much for the insights. Listeners, thanks for joining. Hope you've been able to take away some great tools and ideas to help you strengthen your ability to be an effective leader, especially an influential leader as you're building your sense of confidence and influencing others. All the best, please Like and subscribe. And as you have questions or suggestions of topics for us to dive into into the future, please email us at podcast@stewartleadership.com. We would love to hear from you. All the best. 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