[UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING] Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast.[UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING][UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING] I think you've set it up well and it's recognizing that as leaders, especially as you're advancing in your career and in role and authority, it does not give you the right to impose or to prioritize your own emotional experience over that of others. It does not justify your actions. I have this emotion. I have this feeling. Therefore, I have a right to behave this way. That's an erroneous assumption and that can undermine, it can destroy the credibility that you've built so quickly. Because as humans neurologically we are hardwired to try and read the emotional triggers and cues of others. The facial expressions. And when we perceive that somebody is in a position of authority over us, we actually focus on that even more at a subconscious level and we read those reactions at an even microscopic level,(laughing) much more quicker. So as leaders, it puts us in somewhat of a precarious position because here we're trying to portray being a human, but the latitude, the wiggle room we have is even less because everybody is reading things into what we say and do so closely. So we do have to be on guard. We have to be careful.[UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING] Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast, a place where you can then learn great tools and insights to help you develop and build your leadership. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined with my wonderful brother, Peter Stewart, as my co-host here. and we are going to dive into another episode, and in fact, this episode is a part two. A part two as we dive deeper into executive presence, what executive presence and influence is all about. So if you haven't heard part one, go ahead and jump in anytime and listen to that one. Today we're gonna talk about the other two parts of the Executive Presence Model that we often use to help define what executive presence and influence is all about. So dive in to part one, and today we'll continue with part two. But before we get there, a little Memory Lane moment.[UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING] Peter, you and your family were recently at Disney, and that actually has some significance for us as we do a Memory Lane moment as well. Share some of that. Oh, it's how many times were we in Disneyland driving down growing up in the Bay Area? It felt like every summer you pile in the station wagon, you drive down to Anaheim, spend a day or two in Disneyland, go on the rides and just have such a fun time in that environment. You know, favorite rides, you know, Big Thunder Mountain, Peter Pan ride and all those things. And parents loved it. You know, we were raised as a Disney family, enjoyed the movies, all that stuff. But then, of course, going there with dad, from the leadership perspective, he was always... And Peter, just before you dive into that, didn't mom and dad go to Disneyland on their honeymoon? Like for a day of their honeymoon, they even went to Disney. So like, they loved it. And so they like, we would go down like every year in California. This was a deep seated thing. And then we slowly started to go to Florida in Orlando a couple of times. Anyway. Yes. Oh, it's true. Yeah. They love, I'd forgotten about that part. They did. They went to Disneyland on their honeymoon.(laughing) Why not? Happiest place on Earth. Fun place to go. But yeah, so many fun trips and memories there. Uh, trying to get on. Okay, where's the wait time lowest to sneak into Space Mountain or wherever it is. Um, but yeah, then as I was saying there, dad was always paying close attention to all of the quotes that were posted around on the plaques and signs, whether they're from Disney or some of the imagineers or others, and always taking pictures of them or having a little piece of paper and writing them down, little stories to share. So even on the vacation to Disney, it was also a source of leadership inspiration.- Absolutely, absolutely. And this reminds me, so I think one of the last times I was there with mom and dad, it was maybe 10, 12 years ago or so um, in Orlando. And I'll never forget a specific story. We were in the Peter Pan line waiting for the Peter Pan ride. And as you may recall, and our listeners, many of you who probably have been there or have seen pictures or whatever, the Peter Pan ride, you wait, of course, in long lines. But once you get up there, you get in these small little ships, pirate ships, and that's what takes you through the ride. And so as I'm waiting, I see one of the crew members, one of the, what do they call them again, Peter?- Cast, cast members. - Cast, duh. I knew this, so. You're a part of the show. Right, you're part of the show. Yeah. So one of the cast members, and she was doing something to the bar that you sit-- the lap bar that comes and sits right on top of you, essentially, to keep you in once you sit in the ship. And she was taking something out of her hand and sprinkling it across this lap bar and across the entire ship. And I was looking at her like, what is she doing? And I realized, oh, she's sprinkling imaginary pixie dust so that each of the ships are ready for the guests to come in and sit and then take off and enjoy the trip. And I'm like, wow, that is above and beyond because first of all, pixie dust isn't real. So she's just enhancing this experience which I'm impressed with. But then here's the kicker. I see one of these ships coming and it has an out of order sign on it. And I thought, oh, I wonder what she's gonna do when the out of order ship comes. Is she just gonna ignore it or what? She did not ignore it. She did the exact same thing for that one. She took a little pixie dust out of her hand, sprinkled it across the out of order ship just as if it was any other ship. And I just sat back and I'm like, no way. No way. Where else would an employee in any organization go so much above and beyond and be so bought in? And it just helped illustrate to me what full engagement looks like. Because engagement is all about providing your voluntary extra effort towards something. And this cast member was putting her voluntary extra effort of providing pixie dust, the ultimate final touch on the guest experience, even on an out-of-order pirate ship. I was just amazed, and that helped illustrate, again, this amazing full engagement idea to be that bought into their mission and purpose.- Oh, it's powerful. And to see that, and that's just like one example, and you'll see them across the parks as you interact with other cast members. I was just recently out in Orlando with my family, and as you park in the parking lot, they'll,'cause it's a ways from the park entrance, they'll put you in a tram to take you to the front. And one day in particular, I think we were at the Animal Kingdom Park, that there's a driver of the tram and then there's somebody in the back car with a microphone whose really main function is to one, for safety, help ensure that nobody is getting on or off the tram so that they don't get run over. You know, that would be horrible.- Sure. You know, interfere with the enjoyment of the day. So it's a safety focus signal to the driver,(click sound) you can take off. The second one is to help remind individuals to record where they parked so they don't get lost.(laughing) And to give a little introduction to the park. So that's really their function. They're there for safety and information. This day, the tram operator or the person in the microphone in the back was doing such an entertaining job, going above and beyond. He had the entire tram in stitches in laughter. It was a full standup routine. He had made up songs to go with Disney tunes to teach you about the tram safety method, to help remind you about where you parked, about all these. I mean, we kept looking at each other saying,"What did this guy eat for breakfast?”'Cause this is early in the morning.- Right.- But everybody around was in laughter. We haven't even gotten to the gates of the park yet. And we've already had probably one of the most enjoyable experiences of the day on the parking lot tram. Going above and beyond.-Yeah. Wasn't just, "Hey, are people safe? Take off." It's, "I'm gonna do this in a magical way”—Mm hmm.”so that everybody hears me, laughs, enjoys." And you did not forget that you were parked you know, in Wally lot 202(laughing) or whatever it was. Because you're hearing the little jingle the guy made. So just another example is, there's lots through Disney, but yeah, it's a fun Memory Lane, some insights to glean from it, and it's always a fun place to go.- Yeah, it was always a place for us growing up to enjoy, but to learn from as well. And, you know, as I reflect on some of these experiences, so much of it stems from that passion around the purpose. Why are they there? What are they trying to do? How they can each tap into their own strengths, utilizing that. And so kind of making a transition to the topic of executive presence. You know, when I think of executive presence, it's that credibility. It's the ability to look at somebody and you're drawn to them. You want to listen to them. You're interested. You know, it's interesting, just like the tram operator that you shared, I mean, you think of the presence that he portrayed, the sense of confidence, utilizing his strengths in fully leveraging his job and more so, you were drawn to it. And as we take that and apply it to a variety of other organizational settings, it's always going for that ability to influence others in positive ways, to be able to help get people's attention so that when you come into a room, or when you come onto a tram, or when you come onto a ride of some sort, you pay attention to that person because they know what they're doing. They care about you. They react in ways that are helpful. They share information, all of these factors. And so previously, we talked about the first two real elements of executive presence, how you show up and how you decide or how you make decisions as key elements. And so then the other two parts, Peter, give us a high level of the other two and then we can do a deeper dive into those.- Sure. So the next two components to kind of wrap up the executive presence framework is first, how you manage emotions. It's recognizing that yes, we're humans and yes, we're leaders, but we also have emotions and those emotions make a difference. How we can leverage those, how we are able to control or manage those at times, help us be able to show up best, to inspire that confidence and other things. So that's when you get into being able to manage those emotions. And then the last area is how you inspire. It's recognizing that it's how you are presenting the information, how you're able to clearly articulate a vision that people are willing to follow. They're not being forced to follow it. That's how you earn people's hands and feet. But as leaders, you wanna earn their hearts and their minds. That's what they willingly give you. And to quote a gem dad's often shared. So it's that inspiration, and it's also helping to create that environment for others. So it's connecting people to the vision, connecting people to the why, connecting people to the value that they bring through stories that you can tell an understanding of the organization as a whole. So those two components, we can dig in a little deeper, but that helps to round out at a high level what executive presence looks like, how you show up, how you make your decisions, how you manage emotions and how you inspire others.- Yeah. So as we dive a little into the managing emotions, the first thing that comes to my mind is managing your reactions. We are fundamentally emotional beings. You know, we try to be rational, we try to be objective. We aren't-- - And try. That word you just said is try. We try to be rational. It's so important. And so it's embracing and acknowledging the fact that there's a lot of irrational emotion that we have. It influences us so much. And so how do we acknowledge that? Especially how we react, how we manage that reaction to others, how we consider the other person with regard to how we show up and with our reactions. And it's not just based on us and our mood in the moment, our own unique set of pressures and worries and stresses and hopes and dreams, but rather how do we consider the other person with how we react? And that is one of the cardinal aspects, hallmark aspects of emotional intelligence, to be able to understand the other and react appropriately, which is so critical to helping somebody view you as a credible person of influence so that you can adapt and be flexible depending upon who you're talking to, how you react. How would you add to that, Peter?- I think you've set it up well and it's recognizing that as leaders, especially as you're advancing in your career and in role and authority, it does not give you the right to impose or to prioritize your own emotional experience over that of others. It does not justify your actions. I have this emotion, I have this feeling, therefore I have a right to behave this way. That's an erroneous assumption, And that can undermine, it can destroy the credibility that you've built so quickly. Because as humans, neurologically, we are hardwired to try and read the emotional triggers and cues of others, the facial expressions. And when we perceive that somebody is in a position of authority over us, we actually focus on that even more at a subconscious level. And we read those reactions at an even microscopic level.(laughs) Much more quicker. So as leaders, it puts us in somewhat of a precarious position. Because here we're trying to portray being a human, but the latitude, the wiggle room we have is even less because everybody is reading things into what we say and do so closely. So we do have to be on guard. We have to be careful. So it pulls into this concept of emotional intelligence. And we could dive deeper into a whole episode more on just EQ itself. But a few of those main components you're touching on, Daniel, as you said, it's that awareness of others' reactions to your emotions and how your behaviors influence them. And that's one half, it's the other side. But then the kind of the first stage is recognizing one's own emotion, emotional experience, and then having the ability to manage and regulate our own emotional experience.-Yeah. And they're all interrelated and connected. So how do you respond, Peter, to the person who says,“you know, I'm just being honest.”“I'm just being authentic.”“I feel frustrated or sad or depressed or stressed.”“I'm just expressing where I'm at.”“and you need to process and deal with my reaction.’ How do you break that down and respond to that?'Cause that's a common assumption that folks could might come in, especially when there's a self-righteous component of, well, this is who I am, or a desire to be authentic. Well, this is who— deal with me. Deal with all of the emotions that I... how do you dial that differently? Or is that okay?- Yeah. Oh, there's so much loaded into that thought and that statement, because at its core, it's trying to own and recognize who we are as humans, that we have the right to have feelings. We have the right to have an emotional expression. But we also have to recognize that there are going to be consequences to how we express those emotions. There are consequences to the behaviors we display. And while we may want to be authentic, well, great, then you get to authentically deal with the consequences of how others perceive your behaviors. And so that comes into that idea and concept of code switching, of reading context, being able to empathize and understand, which is why there is that deeper component of EQ. It's not just, I wanna be aware of my own emotional experience, and I'm going to express it in a way that feels authentic to me. Great, that is one part of EQ. The other one is recognizing how does that emotional experience impact others? And are there times in which we may need to suppress, we may need to alter, we may need to push back on some of our natural inclinations and tendencies in order to help ensure that our message or our relationships are preserved or conveyed in a clear way.- Yeah. Yeah, I often think the emotions that we have, that we experience, whatever they might be on the broad spectrum of emotions, healthy, normal, we can't control that. What we can control is how we react to them. Mm hmm. We can influence that, we can change it up. And for folks who say, well, I'm just gonna be direct and say it, and whatever I'm feeling, the element that needs to be considered is, as you're pointing out, the care. How much are you caring about the other person and how they will be impacted, how they will react to this,'cause it's not a unilateral situation. Now, if we're in a crisis, that can be unilateral. And I want you, you know, whoever it is, to come and tell me, get out of this burning building, sit down in this plane, assume crash positions. You know, if we're going down, but otherwise the great majority of the time, there's an interaction, there is a relationship, it is a bilateral experience, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not. And folks who want to build that ability to influence others need to continue to adjust and monitor their reactions, not just based upon their own needs, but based upon the other person's needs as well. It is key. So as we're talking about the emotional aspects here of this third part, what other elements, besides the reaction and emotional intelligence, are involved in this one?- Well, I actually wanted to add one more part to the reaction, 'cause as leaders, yes, we're trying to be conscious of our own emotions. We wanna be conscious of the emotions of others. But we also have to recognize the position that we are representing. And oftentimes we represent an organization.- Yeah.- And so that with that role, it then also helps justify why we may need to alter and adjust some of our emotions and behaviors, even if it might say putting some of our personal beliefs aside, because we're having to present that organizational company face.- Yeah.- Because of what we represent. And that can mean so much. So that's another reason why it's that awareness, which is why we phrased the name of the quadrant so carefully. It's how you manage emotions.- Yeah. You know, you're reminding me, a CEO that I worked with several years ago in the finance insurance sector, he would react in meetings so strongly. And if he liked it, if he was annoyed, if he— and you could totally tell the second he was annoyed or he no longer cared and he shifted his body language, he would say something really short and abrupt and it was done. And that's how he managed. And even in one-on-one settings, he had an agenda and he was going to say it and you simply had to deal with it. Now, for a short-term situation, that might work, especially in a turnaround, but that did not work for him long-term. And shortly after, the board actually exited him. And so I think back on how he would react to people and he would get so emotionally charged. And it was so hard for him to manage that and to think of the other person, the element of empathy, the element of where the other person is. And there's also another aspect to managing emotions, and that is the ability to give feedback in effective ways, to be able to share positive and constructive comments in a way that others will know what to do with it, and that they look to you with a spirit of trust already. Otherwise, what you will say may fall on deaf ears and may actually be negative. And so much of that is the informal ability to share feedback. And one of the small little tools that we have is this spot it and share it approach. So informal feedback or informal coaching is what the majority of leaders do, other than a formal coaching session. That happens, sure, but the great majority is informal and we'll often advocate. If you spot something, good, bad, ugly, how do you share your reaction and do it in a way that's helpful for the other person as well? So this culture of feedback, this ability to deliver feedback, so critical to be able to help manage emotions, yours and the other person.- It's true. You're reminding me of a leader I was coaching a few years ago who had a tell in a meeting. You knew when they had a significant comment to make, and really they weren't gonna be taking anything else in until they shared it. The glasses came off. Literally the glasses came off and were set on the table. And you knew, okay, they've got something to share. They've got a thought, 'cause the glass would come up and they kind of lean back in their chair and here's something to share. And the team knew about it. The individual actually had no clue they were doing it, but the team collectively shared that with the individual and they realized, oh my gosh,(laughing) you're right, I do this. And then it turned into a bit of a joke. There was a comfort level within that team in which they could share that feedback to hear it. And they knew, oh, this individual has something to share right now. There's a question, there's a thought. And they'd ask, okay, what's on your mind to be able to share what the feedback or thought or idea is.- Oh, interesting. Yes, so it's managing the reactions. And then as we think of this last portion of the Executive Presence Model, how you inspire. And you framed it up in terms of, it's not just the hands and the feet of somebody doing the work. It is getting deeper into who they are and understanding that motivation and understanding the heart and the head in a way that it sometimes is hard to communicate. It's not just describing, yeah, this is what we gotta do and here are the tasks, it's going beyond the task into the relationship, into the purpose, into what motivates them, into helping them make a difference, into that more abstract part that sometimes we as humans can get frustrated with because it's not as clear, but yet the power of being able to motivate and inspire is so remarkably strong that we remember those moments. You know, I bet if we think of folks who have inspired us over the years, we'll readily be able to think about that because those are moments that touch us deeply. And we look at those who helped us get that moment with incredible credibility and presence and influence. So much so that when I'll ask that question with groups, with teams I'm working at is, you know, reflect on a leader that inspired you or, you know, or who gave you a piece of advice that's really stuck with you?- Yeah.- And oftentimes there are emotional reactions as people share that. There might be tears as they're thinking back or they're like saying, I still get goosebumps, you know, as I think about how that individual made me feel as they shared this with you. It's not forgotten. And so it's not something to be taken lightly. It is a clear part of being a strong, credible leader is that ability to inspire. And great inspirational leaders are able to connect the bigger picture, that clear vision of what the future may bring with the actions of today. Mmm. And being able to make that connection is so powerful because then it helps individuals see their role in being able to get to that future state. And so you have to understand how organizations are set up, they're structured. What is that unofficial org chart look like? How are the people involved in the connections? How do you tell really good stories? You know, how do you get that skill to be able to present and share and inspire people through the examples, the anecdotes, those stories,'cause that's what penetrates their heart and their mind. And being very clear on what that purpose and vision is. So I think those are some components of how you can inspire others.- Yeah. And you're making me think a boss I had many years ago, very much enjoyed him. He was so good with storytelling and metaphors. And to be able to bring things really home, specifically in very memorable ways. And one time he was sharing with me this story of this notion around him going fishing and hunting and what kind of knife he would bring. And he would talk about, you know, these big knives and all of this. And he would look down at the fish that he caught or some sort of other activity as he was hunting, and he'd be like, "What kind of knife do I need? Do I need this massive, heavy, big one, or do I need a small one?" As I then cut this or shave this off or cut, and then he was applying it to meetings and preparing for projects and how to influence others. And he's like, "Look, how often do we need simple paring knife versus a big old Rambo knife. And so often it is the simple paring knife that we need to bring and that's going to be a sufficient tool to be able to help make progress versus going in with a big old Rambo knife and showing off all of the benefits and isn't this awesome and then overwhelming people and saying I don't get it. So the metaphor that he was able to use off of his storytelling I remember it to this day. I mean you can picture this. You can just imagine out hunting when you would need this. And then of course in a corporate setting, using that metaphor, the paring knife, the simple straightforward versus a, you know, Rambo or Swiss Army knife with a hundred options. What's the one thing? Let's be simple. Let's move forward about it. Yeah. Oh, it's, and it's stuck with you. And it's been several years since you've worked for that individual, but you still remember that example of which tools are best. And sometimes the simpler one is actually the better one. Back to Occam's razor, as you're trying to go through different postulates and theories and so forth, the simplest solution is the one you want to go for that still provides the result and the accurate explanation. So as we jump back to Disney, it's a reminder... reminded of the story that Walt shared when he first presented the idea of Snow White. And I don't remember if we've shared this on an episode in the past, but here Walt was back in the 30s. He was trying to get his team to come on board to make a full length animated picture, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, had never been done. So he gathers his group together, all of his lead animators, they'd been making animated shorts for years. You know, had a good team. Gave them all a dime or 15 cents or something. And this was like three o'clock in the afternoon. He said, "Go get yourselves a good meal." And he overpaid them. A meal was about a nickel."And I want you back here in the studio at seven o'clock tonight." So they all went. And at seven o'clock they returned and Walt was not in his office. He was in the main theater. And he had all the lights off except just a spotlight. And he invited them to take their seat. And he said, I want to invite you to come on board a dream I've had for many years. I want to make this a reality. And then he went through character by character, line by line, and acted out the entire story of Snow White as a one-man show, using the voices, the characters, the dwarves, everything. And after it was done, he said,"Will you join me in making this vision a reality?" The rest we know is history. As they came on board, it was a technological achievement. The Academy gave him seven little Oscars to represent the seven dwarves. And it truly is the film that financed much of all the rest of Disney as he did that. But he didn't just flippantly throw out an idea. There's that element of inspiration. He made sure they came prepared, they were fed. He gave them the full details of what they were gonna get involved in and acknowledging that this was going to be a hard endeavor,—Yeah. but that the end point was going to be well worth it. The ability to paint a vision, a future state, and to paint it not just with words, but with emotion, with heart, to act it out, to help convey it in a way that doesn't just fit for you, but for others, and to reinforce that. What a powerful motivator. And again, it gets at the heart, it inspires. And it's simple, it's straightforward, but it's something people can wrap their head around that they can then move forward. I love it. So as we think across all of these four areas here, we've covered a lot over these two episodes as we think about how people, how all of us can inspire others, can show up with a sense of presence and confidence so that others will say, "Oh, I wanna listen to you.”"I wanna work with you.”"I wanna be with you.”“I want to belong with you to this group as we then work together”“and achieve great things.” How you show up, how you make decisions, how you manage your emotions, and how you inspire are so key as well. And by the way, as a side note, listeners, there is an assessment if you're interested. Just reach out, send us an email at info@stewartleadership.com. We're happy to share some information around that one if you're wanting to assess yourself through an online assessment. But you can also take a look at yourself across these four and self-assessment. Just asking others how they see you as well. And that's a powerful way of creating that feedback.[UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING] So Peter, here's the question for you as we kind of wrap up. What's the one thing? What's the one thing that leaders can do to help elevate their ability to have strong executive presence and influence? Well, I think the one thing to be a better leader, to have better executive presence is to look at these four areas how you show up, how you decide, how you manage emotions and how you inspire and pick one to focus on improving in. The shotgun approach is frustrating and it doesn't work. Which area do you think is an area of weakness for you? Where could you improve and try and dig in and do a little bit better? Maybe it is in your emotional expression. Maybe it is in your ability to inspire and to tell, have a compelling vision. Maybe it is the way you're making decisions or how you show up. Pick one. You know yourself. You know your context. And if you really don't know which, I bet you'll find out pretty quickly if you ask a few folks around you. Solicit some feedback. And then dig in. We have a ton of resources at stewartleadership.com and articles to help on and guide you on all these. Google the topics. There is so much out there, so many resources to help you improve, that if you just pick one area, you're going to get better. That's great. Excellent. Peter, thank you. Listeners, thanks for joining us. Another great episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast, where we talk about tools and insights to help you along your leadership journey. Please like, subscribe, listen to others. And as you have questions that you'd like us to dive into in future podcasts, please email us at podcast@stewartleadership.com. We'd love to hear from you. All the best. Take care, everyone. 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