(upbeat music) Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast.(upbeat music) As leaders, it is so hard to know, is someone actually giving me feedback that I'm gonna take and work and use as constructive growth? Are they being critical or are they venting? And understanding, A, that you're taking it and hearing it from the right person, but as a leader and you've got a lot of input, those, sometimes those negative criticisms come in and take over and that's what fuels us to digging in even deeper, right? And going even harder when it's the stop, the halt. And again, we're not halting for a week, we're halting for 30 seconds, for 30 minutes, pausing on a conversation and then circling back to, "Was this feedback? Is it really something I do need to address and let the ego come down?" Or is it someone else's issue that we need to separate that from ourselves and not internalize? But feedback is key. Those conversations is so important to being open and receptive and then modeling that, you know, for others.(upbeat music) Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined as always with my brother, Peter Stewart. And today we have a fantastic guest to talk about an incredibly relevant topic for all leaders, especially as we're all so stinking busy and trying to figure out how to be successful and getting things done with people and honoring ourselves. It is just such a balance. Amanda, it is fantastic to have you here. Welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Awesome. And so let me share a little bit about Amanda's background, and then we're going to dive into this topic around self-compassion as a leader. Amanda Younts, known as the Midlife Catalyst, I love this, Midlife Catalyst, helps leaders and organizations navigate meaningful change with clarity, courage, and authenticity. Drawing on over 20 years in public school leadership, disability advocacy, and clinical psychology. A lot to draw on here. She brings a grounded holistic approach to growth that resonates across real-life challenges. So, Amanda, again, welcome, and we want to start off with this concept. Help us get it grounding. When I say self-compassion and leaders, how do those two relate? What is this self-compassion notion? Give us a sense of that to start us off. Absolutely. I think we hear so much about burnout with leaders, right? But the self-compassion piece is what we have to implore before we can even address burnout. And what we get is that people think self-compassion, self-care. It's a spa day. It's these little trivial activities, but it's really your habitual actions and routines and how you're going about your day. So for me, as a pretty high-level leader in the past, the key was finding those big words of vulnerability, right? My generation grew up in the, you respect your leaders, yes sir, we do what we're told. And I got that from the household on into the workforce. But then we've learned, we've got to have the human connection. And the human connection is being compassionate to others, servant leaders, that's what we... we're compassionate to others, but we're not compassionate to ourselves because we think that's selfish. But the self is the key word there, of nailing down how to cut it off. And what I mean by cut it off is cut off the work, cut off those internal scripts that that are telling you it's not enough, that you've got to keep achieving, keep climbing. Sometimes we have to have that compassion to say, "I've done enough today. I've done enough." So Amanda, what I'm hearing as you're diving into this concept of self-compassion. It's not everybody just needs to sign up for spa day, you know, or take a three-week holiday, because that's just not feasible all the time. But it's that compassion toward ourselves, it's the mindset of what we bring each day, that we are going to strive to do our best, and our best is going to be good enough. And that is so key. And that was, I mean, I speak from my lived experiences, because that was hard for me to learn that 120% every day isn't going to be not only your best, but it's not best for me. It's not best for the people around me because it's not sustainable, right? Of knowing and having the trust. And I think it comes from you model and you build the relationships so that people see “oh, she's not,” and this is where I get into Midlife Catalyst,“she's not having a midlife crisis, it's just this is the best she can do today.” This is —and being okay with that. That's the piece, is that we're not failing we're growing, and when you're a leader you're growing in front of people So let's keep on this this topic this idea of building self compassion as a leader, understanding it's critical to helping avoid burnout. It's critical balancing high workloads, stresses, and pressures. What are some things that can be done? And I like how you're talking about looking at these daily habits because this is not this, you know, just have a spa day once a month and everything is good. We're talking about the morning routines, the afternoon, the lunch, the evening, the weekly... What are some routines that you find? What are some ways that you find leaders can start to practice self-compassion a little bit easier, more often for themselves? First, it's knowing yourself. I'm a morning person. I love my morning routine, and that was a significant step in my life and my leadership of my 5.30 a.m. journaling, meditation, getting my mind right for the day. So I wasn't running in frazzled. When I say that, people think, "Oh, it took you two hours." It's a 30-minute practice, right? It's not something that is a huge chunk of time. It's a small percentage of your day. But not everyone is a morning person. So I'm not going to force that on someone. It's knowing when and how. Not everyone's a journaler, a pen to paper journaler. It's understanding your unique self. And so we really have to become students of ourselves to know what works for us, what works for our clients that we're coaching. But the morning routine for me was huge. And a lot of times gratitude, you know, it kind of gets diminished. There is so much power in gratitude. Not so much as it's a hokey thing. It helps me reflect and find the joy in the day. Because when we're seeking that joyful activities throughout the day, so it's not a spa day or a Caribbean cruise, the vacation, right? It is every day finding something. And it's not going to be everything, right? But you've got to have a small percentage of joy and happiness that fills you up and it keeps you going. And those are the compassionate things. And if then you identify what those are, then you start to build them in to your day. Okay, I've got to get out, if it's not even five minutes, into the garden with whatever your activity is, you've got to make it happen. Yeah, you're touching on with this application of self-compassion on this notion of conservation and recharging of our own personal energy. You know, it's identifying what is it that charges our batteries, what are those things that really drain them, and what are those indicators for us to know when that battery is getting low? You know, how do we build that back in? So it's not just this idea of self-talk of, "Hey, I'm doing the best I can." It's that taking that step to say, "Here's how I position myself so that I can be the leader I want to be as I'm showing up, to have the energy I believe I need to have or I want to have as I'm engaging in these things," and so forth. So maybe this is a way for those that might hear self-compassion and think,"Oh, that's too touchy-feely,” you know, ”for me," as we maybe reframe it a little bit more in terms of that energy management notion, maybe that helps swallow a little bit easier. Energy management is a huge piece. Very different from time management. We see in our time, in our schedule, here's how we're maximizing our day. But are we reflecting on that and getting in tune with our body of what's raising the the hair on the back of your neck, what's churning your stomach, what's getting you clenched up and frustrated, recognizing that is draining our energy. And when we can identify what those triggers are, then we come back to A, refilling that. So knowing, okay, I'm depleted, I've got to replenish. But also, here's what my schedule looks like, and I see I have back-to-back meetings with those triggers that totally deplete me, is it possible for me to move those around so I'm not one to the next to the next? Sometimes it's not possible, which means I need a 90-second box breathing, step outside, pause, before I go back into the next situation that's gonna deplete me again. It's the small things in the day to stay on top of it. Again, some people are better in the afternoon, so maybe they're building up to that, but I would always try to have those really hard, crucial meetings in the morning if possible, because I knew by the end of the day, the fuse was short. We talked about lunch, what are you fueling yourself? And there is absolute research on, we're grabbing, we're grabbing, we're going, but if you're eating the nutritious food, it just resets your system. And again, that's not selfish to step away for 30 minutes. It actually impacts your whole team, and it makes them better as well, so that you're not triggered and escalating at them, right? And the power of establishing routines to be able to re-energize morning, afternoon, evening, some practices that help one center, all very good. So let me ask you a somewhat provocative question. And this question, there's all sorts of issues with this question, so we can tackle this, but it can be a place where some of us can go. And the question is, when is our good enough not good enough? Because we might say, you know what, this is too much. This is enough for me, I need to back away. We still have demands. We have clients, we have a boss, we have spouse, we have children, we have other, and we could still be falling short consistently. And they're like, that's so very nice that you need to take a break. We have things that need to, what do you... So, how do we grapple with this when we need to let go? No, uh-uh, it's not good enough. We gotta keep going.- A few things, and this is where the time management comes in of are there times of year? I'm a huge routine scheduler, and coming from the education world, you had to bring it in August, right? There was no taking off. But it was also, you've built up that kind of bank and that trust with your teachers, your staff, your parents, your clients. You've built that up, so if something happens and you are depleted, A, you're vulnerable and have the relationship and the respect to be able to say, I know I didn't bring it today. I'm gonna do better. I mean, we've got to be open with people because when we start to model that, I think it eases them up of, okay, I don't have to be perfect every day either. And that's the key. As a scheduler, I have to know, I can't be 120% maximized scheduled out because I will say, "Oh, I'm gonna schedule my rest day." And quite honestly, A, you never know what may come up. But sometimes I schedule a rest day and my body's like, "I'm full of energy, I'm ready to go." Or as a writing project or my creative fuel, and then I'm like, "Oh dear, this doesn't fit the plan,” right? And so being okay with being a bit flexible and adjustable to know that. But as far as the people around you, that is where you've got to do these things up front. You can't wait. It's the management up front so that hopefully we don't get to the time of, this is absolutely not your best and it's not okay for us today. And it just takes time. It takes time to get the routines down, but to know yourself and read yourself and feel it. We're great as leaders of recognizing it in other people, in our employees. Can we recognize it in ourself? And do we have, I call them my board of directors. Do we have someone that's able to call me out, or call me up, and say, "Listen, I can tell. I've been around you enough, a partner, a spouse, I've been around you enough to know you're about to blow. You need to take a break." But we've got to be vulnerable and we've got to be open to those conversations. And I think that's another piece that at times gets miscommunicated. It's not about sharing every detail of our lives. It's about being vulnerable enough to say, "I'm going through this. It is hard. Trust me." So it's a fine line. I think it is a fine line. And I think you're describing this well in terms of this idea of how do we be proactive about helping to build those relationships, to nurture some of that grace in others to be given to us during those hard times, as we may be more willing to allot that grace or compassion to other people, and it's hard for ourselves. And so, as I think we dig into this even further, it's how do we help then be on guard so that we are not using self-compassion as a crutch to resist growth, to resist development, to block that hard feedback, basically when our ego really needs to let some air out of it.(laughing)- Oh man, and you said a key word right there, feedback. As leaders, it is so hard to know, is someone actually giving me feedback that I'm gonna take and work and use as constructive growth? Are they being critical? Or are they venting? And understanding, A, that you're taking it and hearing it from the right person. But as a leader, and you've got a lot of input, those, sometimes those negative criticisms come in and take over, and that's what fuels us to digging in even deeper, right? And going even harder when it's the stop, the halt. And again, we're not halting for a week, we're halting for 30 seconds, for 30 minutes, pausing on a conversation, and then circling back to, was this feedback? Is it really something I do need to address and let the ego come down? Or is it someone else's issue that we need to separate that from ourselves and not internalize. But feedback is key. Those conversations is so important to being open and receptive, and then modeling that, you know, for others. And so you're talking about the external voices from others to help you kind of gauge a sense of who you are, how you're showing up, etc. Let's talk for a moment about the internal dialogue, it's always fascinating to me how we as humans, we can have this double standard with how we treat and think of others, perhaps give the grace and patience and understanding of others that we don't somehow attribute to ourselves. We feel that we are different, we're special, we should be to a higher standard. Whatever it is, it's somehow easy to get on a different set of standards and thus this self-critical notion. And there's so much research out there and it's interesting to see where and how they measure it, but the number of self-critical thoughts we have every day, you know, it's just mind boggling high. And you're like, wow, and how it's almost like the majority of our thinking. It's like this self-critical. So it's like we're built for this self-critical notion. As you then hear all of this, Amanda, talk to us in terms of what do we do to work with the inner voice where that inner voice just wants to be heard and to smack you down and to say no. How do you combat this? How do you work through it?- First of all, you've got to acknowledge it recognize it and there's so much power in getting it out either through a coach through therapy through journaling you know whatever your method is of just opening your mouth and getting it out and then being able to go “is this true?” Here's what that internal voice is saying but here are all the things here is all the evidence that is counter to that. Where is this coming from? What is the evidence? And then building on that, look at how far you've come, look at your strengths, look at everything you have done in life that has gotten you to this point in this leadership position, the more you recognize the successes, which is a big piece for me of not looking at the big long-range goal, it's the daily successes. What were the wins today that I overcame, that I was able to be successful, gratitude, grateful for those things that then starts to build that momentum towards squelching that inner critic. Yeah, it is because those inner voices are so loud. And they can not always be predictable. And there's some seasons of life and some triggers that make them much stronger. But as you're really helping to highlight, it's being aware of that dialogue and recognition of what that thought process is. And then we actually have a tremendous amount of power and influence over what we do with those thoughts. You know, how we translate them into action, or how we adjust or alter them to be more helpful, you know, to bust out of the cognitive distortions that we can all fall prey to so easily, to actually help be a little bit more productive and effective. So as we help translate this into some of the day-to-day activities that many of our listeners will be hearing, what are two or three tips or suggestions you have that leaders can really use to exercise more self-compassion, to be more effective leaders? What are some of the tips you find some of your clients are using?- Simple things to start with of I use a lot of visual cues to remind myself and to remind them to pause after a phone call, after a meeting. Do you have your stress ball? Do you have your walking pad, a workout band, a resistance band, something that you can do that's not, you know, a lengthy activity, not a lengthy activity, but can quickly shift your mind and shift your thoughts and your energy back to the positive. Maybe it's a reminder of something that brings you joy and happiness. I'm going to pause you a second there.-Pausing, breathing, yes. You just gave somebody, you said visual cues, and then you started talking about stress balls and resistance bands. What would people do with those in a 60-second, 90-second long thing? What would they do? First of all, get up. Get up from your desk. So many of us, we're just going to dive right back into responding to that email or stop. Get up, move away. Something quick to get the blood pumping, you know, 60 seconds of squats with your band, 60 seconds of breathing, box breathing with your stress ball. So when I see it, there's you know great talk about let's have clean space. I'm more inclined to use it and to remember it if I see it. So that's the visual piece and it may even just be a you know a small sticky on your laptop but whatever works for the client to trigger that. I need to pause. I need to pause. I need to stop and get up. Walk down the hall. It's funny. It's techniques we use with kids that were, you know, maybe causing a behavior disruption in a classroom and you wanted to hit it off first. And so you'd say, hey, would you walk this to the library for me? It's the same thing. Pause, take a walk, get out of the environment. But that's the point of the visual. So you remember it. Okay. I'm a huge... take a sip of water, you know.(laughing)-Yeah. We get into wanting to problem solve and fix immediately, and doing the small things usually results to better problem solving.-Mm hmm. You're reminding me at how skilled so many teachers and educators are, especially in those elementary school years of being able to manage the overall energy of a group, and the energy of particular individuals,(laughing) and how you anticipate and you develop those little behaviors and interventions and things. Because... and this is where you have to attribute positive intent. They're not trying to be a problem.(laughing) They're trying to learn how to manage their own behavior and emotions and energy and all these sorts of things, and you're giving them outlets for it. And I think there's some good analogous behaviors as we get older and we forget about some of those.(laughing) We do. We really do.-Yeah. And play and have fun. You know, we get so much into performance and we forget to just have fun. And that everything doesn't have to be perfect and for a grade and an A. So there's a lot of analogy there that we need to bring back some of that childhood, I think. So let me put my devil's advocate hat on for a moment and build off of that play idea and to think, what if there's listeners right now who are listening to this and they're saying, okay, this all is fine and all, but how much self-compassion do I really need? I'm doing okay, I enjoy the stress and challenge and pressures of getting a lot of stuff done, I like being busy, so, I mean, is something bad gonna happen to me? How much do I need this stuff, 'cause I'm fine. In fact, I want the negative feedback because that helps me learn. And I mean, I don't want people to sugarcoat stuff. Anyway, lots of different ways of looking at it. What might happen to me if I don't focus on self-compassion? Am I just gonna get burned out tomorrow? And I, oh, I didn't realize I was gonna burn. Is it that easy? What's gonna happen if I don't have like morning routines where I sit with tea and gratitude journal? You know, I'm going extreme here, but what will happen if I don't focus on self-compassion as much?- You just described me like 10 years ago.(laughing) Well, I would say, A, take a look at the quality of your relationships around you, which to some people, that's not important either. And that's interesting. But I would say the long-term effects on your body, the stress, the physical health eventually takes a toll and catches up with you. And again, that may be fine to people of, I'm fine if I do all this and die at 70, 65, I'm fine with that. You know, but the long-term effects on your body, on your quality of life are there, and it shows. I think there is an absolute fine line in both extremes. And so walking the middle is hard, knowing it's not gonna always, you know, the seasons, the times, you're gonna be pedal to the metal doing all of the things. But you've gotta find some aspect of joy in your life. And it's that we're very driven now by technology, but we've gotta bring in the human side. And that's the human compassion, the compassion for others, but for self. And so getting that human peace is so key. And if we can get more people that are geared towards that, then I do believe we're gonna have higher quality just interactions and work environments and cultures.- Amanda, thank you. Well said, and frankly, that might be a great way to wrap up. You just summed it up so well. Thank you. Thank you so much for being part of the Leadership Growth Podcast, providing insights and tools to help us be better, more compassionate, self-compassionate leaders,'cause it matters how we treat ourselves so that we can show up as our best each day. Again, Amanda, thank you for joining. Peter, always a pleasure. To our listeners, I hope this has been helpful and the challenge for all of us is to take at least one idea here today and to show greater levels of self-compassion for ourselves and then also how we treat others. Please join us, like and subscribe, and join us in future episodes. And as always, if you have suggestions or comments for us, including topics for future episodes, please email us at podcast@stewartleadership.com. All the best. Take care, everyone. Bye.(upbeat music) If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, or better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.