(upbeat music) Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast.(upbeat music) Fake it until you make it can serve you to a certain point, but you have to get really clear on who you are. Because if you're not clear on who you are, then the people around you are not going to be clear on where they're going. And I believe as leaders, we have to be very clear on where we're leading people, because people are signing up to follow you. They're signing up to work alongside you and they're signing up to grow and develop with your guidance. And if there's a lack of clarity there, then you're really leading people into a lost space. And so when I think about the faking it till you make it, you have to think about the other side of that equation, which is not only you, it's the people that you're leading.(upbeat music) Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined by my brother, Peter Stewart. And today we are especially excited to have a fantastic guest. Dominic George is with us today. Dominic, thank you for joining us on the Leadership Growth Podcast. I am so excited to be here and thank you for having me.- Absolutely. So folks, all of our listeners here, let me just share briefly Dominic's background and then we're gonna have some fun diving into authenticity. How to not lose yourself as a leader, which is a challenge for so many folks who dive in and think there's a certain idea that they need to become as a leader instead of leveraging themselves. But we'll get into that. First, let me just share a little bit about Dominic's background. Dominic George is a leadership strategist, executive coach, and founder of Vision Leadership for Life. He helps high-performing leaders rise into senior leadership without sacrificing their identity, values, or wellbeing. That is a, like a noble challenge for all of us, Dominic.(laughing) So this is, I love it. So how not to lose yourself as a leader, how to then embrace and understand that sense of self as one leads. So let's start off, tell us a little bit about this topic and this tendency for leaders to sometimes lose themselves. What does that mean when we say that, Dominic?- Yeah, it's such a great question and I appreciate it. When I think about leaders who I've coached, leaders that I've worked alongside, even myself in some of my leadership journey, I think about people losing their sense of why and really focusing on the how of leadership. And I believe that true leadership requires a level of introspection. It requires a level of centering self in order to lead others. And often what I've learned in coaching others and watching others and even in my own leadership is that as you're climbing towards that senior leadership role, as you're looking towards promotion, you're challenged, you're in this center point of, do I lead from other people's expectation or do I center my why? And I find that when people get distracted from their own why and gravitate towards other people's expectation, they get lost in the roadmap and the guide map towards leadership. So I really focus on how do you recenter your why and your leadership DNA or your identity in order to lead effectively without losing yourself in the process.- Dominic, I think you're really setting the stage for a wonderful conversation as we think about this and centering. And I have to say, for me, anytime I hear that word centering, I go back to my days in college where I actually did a lot of ceramics and threw a lot of clay on the pottery wheel. And first step, as you get that clay, first you have to get the air bubbles out as you need it, and then you plop it down on that wheel and you get it spinning. And before you can turn it into a pot or a bowl or anything, you have to center that clay. And it's the sequence of kind of applying some pressure and kind of raise it up and and push it down and raise it up and push it down until you've got that nice and centered on the wheel, then you can really mold it into whatever needs to happen. So as you're thinking about a leader who is centered, you know, trying to hold on to that personal why, what are some tips? What are suggestions? How do you help advise or coach somebody to really find that, to find that centered place for them?- Yeah, and it's such a great example. What you don't know, Peter, is I love ceramics. It was my favorite art class. Did it for years. And it's such a peaceful activity. I find that when I actually go back and explore art classes that it helps me recenter 'cause you have to be so detailed. And when I think about people's leadership and getting them back to their center, the first question I ask is really, who are you? Like, who are you when no one else is watching? Because when you're clear about who you are and your why, whether someone is watching or, or not, you're going to get back to that center because you're leading from yourself and your identity. And so that's the first question that I'll ask. I'll go through a series of exercises and, and check boxes in my, my leadership coaching, but that's really the center point of who are you when no one's watching when you strip the title, when you strip the job, who are you as a leader? And I'll talk about this a little bit more, but I really focus on your leadership DNA, which is your story, your value or values and your non-negotiables of leadership. And I think once you get really clear about those things, you get clear on who you are and your center point.- How does it happen? How does it happen that a leader will find themselves not being true to their own why or being centered?'Cause on the one side, we might say, what's the issue? We should all just be centered. We should all have a clarity around our why. We should, you know, all of these. And yet, that doesn't seem to be as easy to understand or maintain. What are those pressures that we are balancing that sometimes can challenge our why and challenge us so we're not necessarily showing up as our self? Talk to us about that.- Yeah, well, I can certainly speak from the leaders that I work with, which typically are black males navigating the leadership space from mid-level manager to senior level manager roles. And what I find is that often those individuals who are navigating those spaces are often either code switching to fit into another language, another culture that they're unfamiliar with. And oftentimes that's led through a series of fear of, it can lead to the loss of identity in that shifting of who you are, because again, you're trying to meet the expectations of others. And over time, it sort of happens by chance. I talk a lot about your mask versus your mirror and the mask being the person or the persona that you think others deserve or want in the leadership space versus your mirror, which is your reflection, who you are, when no one's watching again, you're just yourself. And there's a tug and pull between both of those things. Over time, I think people forget who they are because they wore the mask so far or so long that it becomes performative versus when you're looking in the mirror, when you wake up in the morning and you actually see yourself, the first reflection, you look into your eyes, you see your own identity And it's really important that we look to self before we look to others, because we're really what's missing in the room in leadership. And the more you can put yourself in rooms from your perspective, you start to solve problems that nobody else sees.- I think that's a powerful visual as you're portraying this, the mask versus the mirror. You know, that mask is what you've adopted, the persona that you've adopted in the workplace. It's the person you feel other people think you need to be. As opposed to, all right, mask off, this is just, this is me, this is what I see in the mirror. And I think that we can all relate to that analogy very clearly. And so as you think about that and as you're sharing it, it's like, how can people really show up? And I think particularly as you're pulling in most of your clientele you're working with, black men. And I think so it takes on a different context when we're talking about individuals who may be from a different minority ethnic group who are trying to be themselves in as a minority, you know, in a culture or context that they're not the majority. So how do you still maintain, but yet progress? I mean, it's a fine balance. Yeah, definitely. It's a strategic balance where you're centering yourself, but also managing the perspective of others, especially in leadership, managing the emotions of others around you and their perception of who you are. I think it's a challenging tug of war, but there are many ways to be strategic around that process while still owning who you are. I often suggest that as you grow in your leadership to really create that community around you, whether that's in the workplace, outside of the workplace, because there's a point where you you're sort of in this inflection point of do you get lost in the performative nature of leadership? Or do you continue centering who you are along your entire journey around your why, around your values, around your story. And that gets challenged as you move through leadership, because things are always going to test you. People will test you, situations will test you. And it's really about centering. And I encourage people to develop that community who could call you out, who could call you forward when they see you drifting from that center point of your why and who you are. Yeah. And let's build on this, because it's an easy temptation sometimes to look and kind of divide out into two, like a dichotomy of I either need to be true to myself, or I then change myself to appeal to all of these other groups and stakeholders and influences. And yet, that is not always helpful, because we still need to be in the world. we want to make a difference, we want to be able to move things forward, and we need to interact with a variety of circumstances and contexts. And so it becomes more like a duality that we're continuing to balance self versus how others have these expectations. And yet that balance can get out of whack. Talk to us more in terms of how do you keep that balance in check? And what are the signs that you know that you've gone too far, because you could go too far in either extreme in some ways. Talk to us in terms of how do you maintain that balance? Yeah, and I think it's really about reading the room. We talk a lot about emotional intelligence. We talk a lot about listening to others. And I think people truly get lost when they stop listening. As a leader and leaders around the world, I think we get into this work because we're inspired by people. We're inspired by the potential of what's possible. And I'll speak for myself, like I got into leadership because I personally love people. I love the transformation of people from a place where they see something as impossible and then create the solution around what's possible. And usually that comes in a form of group think that comes in a form of someone stepping outside of a box to say, let's try this. Let's take a risk. And I love that development of people, but you can get lost in that process on either extreme of either overly centering who you are and only seeing yourself or you're getting lost in the performative nature of leadership and you get lost in the how of how do you move forward? How do you progress? How do you get the next role, the next promotion? Like all of those things. And so you can get lost in either extreme, but my center point and my call back to leadership is always to be in the listening stance. And that comes in a form of emotional intelligence, being able to read the room accordingly, looking at what people are saying underneath what they're saying, watching body language, watching the room to understand what is the problem when nobody else is willing to call it out. I think that's true leadership, when you could see the room and understand what's happening from all angles. Yeah, reading a room, it's such a powerful skill. And I'm not sure it's one anybody can ever say, I am a complete master of.(laughing) I mean, I think it's an ongoing development because every room's gonna be a little different, every situation's gonna be a little different. And so you have to be, on guard is maybe too violent of a term, but you just have to always be watching. You have to be on alert. You have to be paying attention to what's going on. So all of that is a key part of emotional intelligence. It's that, I mean, the emotional intelligence, sure, there's that awareness of our own experience of what we are experiencing emotionally, but it's what others are experiencing as well and that interaction. And it can be viewed very much as a soft skill, you know, in some ways and perspectives. How do you turn that into more of a power play in terms of it's a power skill?- Yeah, definitely. When I think about reframing emotional intelligence in the workplace, because it can be seen as a soft skill, but I see it as a strategic power move when you could really get close to mastering how you see the room. It's about self-awareness. It's about self-regulation. And it's really about empathy, like having empathy for others, insights, other people's perspective, of other people's process and journey. And I believe that leadership is about being with people. And the more you could center conversation, the more you can listen to the people that you're leading, the greater the outcome. And so when I think about using emotional intelligence as a power move, I often do this exercise with the leaders that I work with, which is a, I call it the check shift lead, where you're checking your emotional signal at the door, what's happening inside of you. That's sort of the self-awareness piece. And then the shift is shifting into alignment with your leadership values, not as a survival instinct, but more of a power move where you're looking to align with the room, right? You're looking to align with what you're leading and who you're leading. And that really is centered around your why, like why you showed up in this work, why you chose to be the leader that you are. And then it's leading the room with clarity and not compliance, right? So there's that expectation that others have for you in your own leadership journey. And some of that you have to take on because we're all working for someone in some capacity, and you signed up to be a part of a larger mission, and there's a strategic plan around that. But you also get to leave from clarity of who you are in your own authenticity. And that, again, is really centering your why and understanding the room inside of that. But it all comes back to the goal of not emotional control but emotional clarity in that process. I love it, and I want to keep building on this. And if you don't mind, I want to toss out a phrase and get your reaction to this. And personally, I have mixed feelings about this phrase, because we've all grown up hearing this in various ways. And the phrase is "fake it till you make it." And there's a part of that which is, okay, sure, I've never done X role. I've never done that role. I'm not quite sure. Do I fake it and pretend to be confident or build on what little confidence I have and just kind of sum this up? Or do I say, I am out, this is not me? Talk to us as you hear the "fake it till you make it" idea. How does that resonate with you, with your experience as well, in terms of not losing yourself as a leader? Yeah, such a great both slogan and perspective in the workplace that's still operational today, still very present in people's leadership. And I certainly have fell into that trap once or twice in my own leadership journey of faking it till you make it, right? And when I think about that concept, for me it wasn't about faking my knowledge or my skills. It was just really battling that imposter syndrome that so many people experience in the workplace of,"Am I good enough to be here? Do I deserve this seat? Am I qualified to do the things that I was hired to do?" I really think that's where that is birthed inside of that imposter syndrome mentality. And... I will say that it certainly served me at some point to fake it until you made it. But it didn't take me through the destination that I wanted to go to. And I really had to, I'm going to keep going back to your why, which is really centered around what are your values and who are you as a leader? I believe that fake it until you make it can serve you to a certain point, but you have to get really clear on who you are. Because if you're not clear on who you are, then the people around you are not going to be clear on where they're going. And I believe as leaders, we have to be very clear on where we're leading people, because people are signing up to follow you. They're signing up to work alongside you, and they're signing up to grow and develop with your guidance. And if there's a lack of clarity there, then you're really leading people into a lost space. And so when I think about the faking it until you make it, you have to think about the other side of that equation, which is not only you, it's the people that you're leading. And so I think that we have to get really clear on our why. And when I think about imposter syndrome, most people are overqualified. Most people are, they're hired for the role, they've gotten the role, people believe in who they are, they believe in the skill sets that they've brought to the table. But somehow when we get in the seat, we start to panic and operate out of fear. Even though we have all the qualifications, all the knowledge, all the experience, it's really not about perfection. It's about growth and development over time. But I think people get lost in the perfection of leadership versus the reality of you are a great leader. You just have to show up as yourself. It's a very hopeful perspective, Dominic, as you share that. Even just the notion of most people are overqualified for their roles. Because I hear that, and then I think back to the statistics on imposter syndrome and how well over 50% of senior leaders, executives report experiencing imposter syndrome. And so it's that inner battle we have with our own mind, because the reality is we we're hired because some review board panel, interviewer, resume, algorithm, whatever, felt that we had at least satisfactory, sufficient experience to be hired. But we've never done that particular role before, because it's brand new. Or whether we just received a promotion or it's a brand new, it's all new. And we can doubt ourselves because of that newness. But as we hold back to what has prepared us for this in our past, what have we navigated that's similar to this? How do we maintain and keep the essence of who we are while still keeping that humility to grow? And I think that's where there's that balance of how do we have that inner confidence to, "All right, I can do this. I can do this." You know, fight that imposter syndrome, but yet not get too in our head so our ego gets bigger than the room. So what's your recommendation on how do you keep that ego in check? Yeah, which shows up for all of us, right? And you said something that resonates for me. We've all been through an experience in our past that has prepared us for this moment that we're in. And sometimes you just have to think about what those lessons are. Success leaves clues. And the more you can be reflective of the previous successes you had, you can start to implement that in your current leadership journey. But you're right. So many of us experience the imposter syndrome. So many of us think that we're not deserving of the space that we're in. But... I believe that in order to overcome imposter syndrome, you have to get very clear about one thing. You have been hired as a leader, and you have hopefully led people very well up into the point of where you are in your current journey. And the thing that doesn't change over time is leading people. You lead people in a certain way, you sit with people, you listen to what their desires are, what their goals are, align that with your strategic vision of your company. And when you're really sitting with people over time and supporting them in their growth, people are always gonna outperform and show up for you if you're aligned with them along their successes as well. And so when I think about imposter syndrome, if you just center the fact that you're always working with people in every single leadership role that you're in, you'll start to understand those success clues, those leadership qualities that require you to lead people well. And no matter if the role is new or not, Successful leaders always figure it out. Like there's some logistical things that you get to become aware of. There are some strategy things that you get to become aware of in certain industries, but leading people to a destination will always be similar. And... I think the more we could center that, the more we can overcome this idea of imposter syndrome, even though so many people experience it. Yeah. So let's take a challenging perspective here for a minute. And what happens if you do the why work, so to speak? You do the work to understand your why, and you then realize you're not in the right place, that you've been barking up the wrong tree, you've been working in a career or a trajectory, or you're in a position or role that is not reflective of your why, and you've gone a far field from it. And maybe your why, you're like, I don't even wanna be a leader. What is this? Or it's not the right thing for me at this time. Because that could be a possibility as one does the why work and understand one's identity and where one's at. What happens in those moments? because that could have dramatic impact on my earning capacity, my ability to take care of my family, these other factors that are real and they influence and motivate us and yet perhaps at one point they aren't aligned with our why. Those are challenging inner dialogue kinds of conversations. How do you work through that? How do you reconcile some of that? Yeah, another great question, which so many of us experience, which is unfortunate, right? We enter into a space that we think we're called to lead and called to really see as our calling, and then at some point that either shifts or changes and we get lost in that process. I think it's really about finding your voice again. I talk a lot about in my book, actually,

Leading Without Losing Yourself,” of doing the why work, but then when you're at that inflection point of, okay, you've done the work, you've centered your leadership DNA, you center your values, your story, and your identity as a leader, but you're still not in the right place. I think it's really about refinding and rediscovering your voice because sometimes it gets lost in that process of leadership. And... once you're able to, I have this leadership DNA map both in my book and just in my coaching process where I help people really understand their story because when you're clear on what your leadership journey was and what shaped you as a leader, really your edge, your identity, you could start to see through that journey where certain industries and where certain passions sort of helped you grow and develop. And that usually helps you gravitate towards the profession you should be in or the industry that you should be in. I also help you understand your style as a leader. What are the natural rhythms that you operate under, whether that's directive, whether that's relational, whether that's visionary. There's a whole set of ways in which leaders adopt certain styles tied to your story again. And then there's the standards, like what are the values that are non-negotiable for you as a leader? And so getting clear on that leadership DNA map as I go through my coaching journey with the growing leaders that I work with. And from that, getting clear on that story, that's when you start to really center your voice again. And so if you're lost in the workplace, and you're looking to either grow in that space, or sometimes it means you're learning to exit, which is okay. I think you could be just as intentional about exiting an organization as you were intentional about entering that organization. And both parties don't need to be harmed in the process. I think we get to be givers in that process versus takers. But once you're able to either identify, are you exiting or are you continuing to grow? And it just means in a different direction within that company. It's really about finding your voice again. I believe that there are ways to show up as a leader. And I walk people through an exercise of finding your voice over time. It's one week at a time. It's one day at a time. And it's what I coach around is really helping people understand, like, where did you lose your voice in the workplace? And then how can you re-insert it in a way that's not overbearing, but strategic in process? It's about naming the things in the room that nobody's willing to say, calling out the strategies and redirecting conversations when they go off the rail in meetings. We've all been in those spaces. And it's about being strategic along your journey, always centering your leadership DNA in that process. So to answer your question, I really think it's about finding your voice and reclaiming that while you decide,"Am I exiting from the space that I'm in, or am I strategically growing?” And that takes a little different skill in that process. Dominic, this has been really, really helpful as you've shared some thoughts and perspectives on this. You've shared a lot of good little gems too. I mean, just nuggets of wisdom, finding the why. But one that's really stuck out to me, you just threw out there a little bit ago, and it was success leaves clues. That's something I'm taking away from this that I'm going to ponder on a little bit more, because I think there's a lot to unpack with that, as you reflect on the experiences we've had and what helped to build those successes in our past. So I love that notion. Daniel, what's a takeaway for you today? Yeah, the takeaway was kind of like embedded throughout so many of the comments, which is community. It's you can't just do this work by yourself. You need a guide. You need a mentor. You need friends. You need trusted others to be able to bounce ideas off of and to help them check you. And that's what I'm kind of hearing in so many ways, whether it's the emotional intelligence to be able to react and to hear and to listen. And listening inherently involves interacting with somebody else and paying attention to the other person and learning from them. So I'm just hearing so much that leadership is not an individual sport. It is a team sport. And we don't have to be perfect. We want to surround and learn from this community. And sometimes we choose people in the community and sometimes we don't, but how can we learn and understand and grow from that? And so a Lightning Round here for you, Dominic, as we kind of wrap up.(upbeat music) If you had to say one thing to be able to help leaders not lose themselves, what would be that one thing that leaders should do? Great question again, I think it goes back to voice. And I would say that you don't, you don't get your leadership voice back by finding the perfect words. You get it back by refusing to keep erasing yourself. Legacy starts when alignment becomes your leadership standard, not the expectation. Well said. Dominic, thank you for being a part of the Leadership Growth Podcast. So grateful to be here. And I love the questions. I love the insight. And I'm just excited for everyone who's in this inflection point of trying to either find their voice or their leadership DNA and continue to move forward, either in those success clues or in that community that you're building. Love it. All our listeners, thank you for joining us. Reach out to Dominic, as well as to any of us as you need help and support as you're continuing to go through your leadership journey. As well as Dominic, what was the name of your book again? Please, we want to emphasize that. Yeah, and thank you again.

Leading Without Losing Yourself,” and you can find it on Amazon and any platform that sells books. Love it. Listeners, go take a look, check it out, and please join us again in the future as we continue to talk through tools and ideas to help all of us along our leadership journey. All the best. Take care, everyone.(upbeat music) If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague or better yet,(upbeat music) leave a review to help other listeners find our show.(upbeat music)(upbeat music) Remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.(upbeat music)(upbeat music) For more great content or to learn more about how(upbeat music) Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively,(upbeat music) please visit stewartleadership.com.(upbeat music)