Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, along with my brother, Peter. And we have a fantastic guest today, Tiffany Harvey. Welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast.-Thank you, Daniel and Peter. I'm honored to be here. Really excited about today.-And we are going to be diving into a topic, a topic that has been swirling around for quite a while, and it's all about strengths. What are strengths? How do we leverage them? And especially, how do we as leaders leverage our strengths amid such constant change all around us? How do we tap into these strengths? What does it look like? We want to tackle all of these aspects here today. So, because Tiffany is such a great expert here, let me share a little bit about her bio so that everybody else can get to know her, and then we'll dive into some questions. So first of all, Tiffany Harvey, seasoned HR and learning and development professional as a Gallup certified CliftonStrengths coach, and client partner to Gallup. She actually led the strength program at Southwest Airlines for five years, where they earned the Gallup Strengths Strengths-Based Culture Award for three consecutive years. So fantastic bit of history and recognition there. Fantastic. So Tiffany, again, welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast. And we want to start off with a question. And the question is, what really are strengths? And it's a deceptively easy question, but I think there are lots of misperceptions around what the heck is a... is a strength. So could you just kind of ground us? What, what are... What are strengths?-Yeah, that's a great question. You know, strengths, when we think about strengths as a standard definition, it's really the things that you bring to the table that really serve you well. And that can... the facet of that is huge, right? When we're referencing strengths in this conversation, we're really talking about Gallup's CliftonStrengths. And so that is the tool, the assessment that individuals can actually take is more of a talent theme sorter. And so it's not meant to be a label or put someone in a box. But much like other assessments that are out there, it's a fantastic and very validating, very positive tool to help you identify thoughts, feelings, behaviors, said talents that when productively applied, those outcomes at a near perfect performance really shine. So, it's not telling you what you can or can't do, but how you do those things.-And so, following up here, what is... what are they not? Because I think we can group strengths and lots of things. They could be amazing. What are strengths not?-Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. You know, they're not labels. They're not meant to, you know, make people feel boxed in, or people that reference them as a you're a high responsibility, which is one of the strength names. So, you must do X. They're also not excuses for behavior. And a lot of people say, well, because I have high belief, which is another strength name, I'm really within my core convictions, so I can't change or be flexible or think differently or a little bit more open-minded. So they're not those things. They're really meant to serve the purpose of, from a positive psychology perspective, helping people identify the things that they're naturally good at as far as how they show up to do those things, and then to navigate the things that they're not necessarily leading with from a talent perspective, but not excusing it away to not ever do those things. And there are 34 talent themes or strengths that come with this assessment, and everyone has talent. And everyone has all 34 strengths that Gallup classifies. It's how you show up and lead within your top 10 that really make the difference for you in day to day.-I appreciate you elaborating on that and helping us think about strengths in different ways and how to leverage them. And I think we're obviously going to keep diving into this exploration of strengths, but you can't go too far into strengths without bringing up the word that so often is paired with strengths.-Yeah.

weakness.-Yeah.-What... why are we focusing on strengths as opposed to weaknesses? And what drives that focus?-It's a great question as well. So I think Don Clifton, who was part of Gallup, was a big founding member of CliftonStrengths and really created that tool, he talks specifically about that. Instead of focusing on what we don't do well, let's focus on what we do well. And I think if you go to, let's say, a therapy appointment or you're conversing with someone and they want to focus on how to fix it, and that's always a big thing, right? Like, let me go in and dive in and just resolve this or help you navigate this a little bit differently. This really took a different approach. And the research that was, you know, grounded in about four decades of research really popped through. Let's focus on what you really are capable of and how that can show up for you to help you feel better and accomplish the things versus try to reverse course, make you something that you're not, force you into something that doesn't feel natural because you might trip over yourself, and then maybe you partner with those around you who are better at some things than you are, which sometimes can be tough. You know, we're big achievers in our society. We want to be the one to own it all and do it all and have that sense of reliability. However, we can't do it all, and people really do need one another. And so that's a little bit of the delineation there on we don't want to focus on what you don't do well, it's... you know, I'm never going to be a pro basketball player, right? I'm just not, right? I can barely dribble the ball. I don't have that great coordination. So why put myself through the torture of doing that constantly every day only to be maybe mediocre at best when there are people who do it very, very well?-Keep going with some of this because I think sometimes as we look at strengths,-Mm hmm.-there might be some that I might look at and go, hey, I want that. And so, you know, can I go and learn and train and become better at it? And so that's one aspect. And the other is, do these strengths... do they change as we age? Do they become more refined or do some get retired and others emerge? You know, how do they kind of fluctuate, come and go in our lives? And can we change any of that?-Yeah, I love your thinking here. I think these are very typical questions when individuals take this assessment. So your first question is, you look at your entire report data. So you've got these 34 talent themes that have sorted out for you. And there's a lot of really good, very detailed information that is output in your report. The report itself, if you take the assessment and you get your full 34 is what we call it versus just your top five, you can look at the detail that really outlines and aggregates the data from your 1 through 34 themes that really are unique and specific to you. And so your exact strengths and the order in which they sequentially output within the Gallup report is one in 33 million just in the top five with that exact output. It's very unique to the individual. And even if you find a strengths twin... So even if, say, Daniel, you and Peter had the exact top five, which would be extremely rare, your data is going to look different because it is aggregated information all the way through your report, and some of that information may not look exactly like one another because we are unique as people. So if I were to say, I have a little strengths envy, is what we'll call it, I really wish I had more focus because that might be my number 28 or 29 in my report. Instead, I have something else called Woo, which is my number one, and I'm all over the place, right, I like to network and talk to people and I draw energy from others but I have a harder time being more of that execution type style where I need to sit down, focus, and get things done out the door. And so the goal is not to think about how do I move my focus upward into my top 10, but it's more about how do I navigate that? What other strengths can I use within my top 10, within my realm of talent, to help me feel a little bit more focused, and know thyself, and maybe spend some time in considering I need to carve out some uninterrupted space for myself where I'm not going to be distracted by other people, where I want to socialize naturally, and think about how I can get that work done. And so, if you continue to invest and invest and invest in a strength that may be a little bit lower in your realm, it doesn't mean you can't focus. But to focus on that specific one may hinder you from doing things more optimally. So why spend time learning how to dribble that basketball for 10 hours a day, only to realize that had I had that natural talent a little bit more in that top 10 area, I would be able to shoot hoops and dribble basketballs all day long. So in other words, if you're thinking about a strength that you wish you had, think again. You probably have it in there somewhere. You're just using your other strengths to sub in a little bit for that. So I do get a question a lot from leaders who say,“Oh gosh, my number 34 strength is strategic. How am I ever going to think strategically as a leader? That's part of my core competency. What will I do?” And I often say to them what I learned from Gallup early on with some of this work is,“Well, you think, don't you?””Well, yeah, yeah. Sure. You think.””Okay, well then there's some strategy in there. You're able to create a plan. You're functioning in life.” The same thing with communication.“Oh, my communication's over 34. How will I ever get this information out effectively?” Because you are able to communicate, but you may use other strengths to pull from it. It may not articulate the way that a person with high communication can do so naturally. So, there's a little bit of that understanding and giving yourself the ability to embrace that it's okay that that's not what you lead with because you have other talents that you definitely do.-It's such a helpful way to reframe that. And I think it's somewhat counter to a lot of the way we're taught or raised or educated.-Yeah.-As you're trying to achieve that and look... What's everybody around? And that term you used of strength's envy. I can say I've definitely experienced strength's envy-Yeah.-over my life as I look at what other people can do.-Yeah, yeah, I think you're both really spot on here. I think when we grow up, right, and we have teachers and counselors and coaches and employers who say,“Oh, this is what you're doing wrong. Let's go ahead and figure out how we can fix that, or how we can navigate that, or how we can improve this.” And so, as a society, we are so laser-focused on that, and how we just can do better. Instead, it's about identifying, again, not what you can or can't do, but how you do it. And that's what these strengths are really showcasing for yourself. And so you don't really necessarily mature and grow in one strength, but you are able to not necessarily think about your strengths and using those singularly, but pairing them up to get things done. Or even better, partnering with someone that you know brings that natural talent that can help you navigate or work through to get that work across the finished line.-Yeah that synergy makes such a difference.-It does.-So let's expand on this because we will often hear this term of leverage your strengths. You know, what does that really mean from your vantage point? And how can leaders really utilize that perspective?-Yeah, so leveraging your strength is really being very contextual to use your strength. So Gallup has a model built around name, claim, aim your strengths. Naming your strengths is not necessarily memorizing those strengths, but identifying and being able to recall what those strengths are, at least if you know one or two of those, right? Like, what are my top one or two strengths that show up for me daily? And then, claim is about embracing your strengths, and feeling good and enjoying who you are. And you know what? That's a good thing that I show up with this. And then the aim part is a little bit more of that sticky part. Like we have to be very intentional. And that's the leveraging of your strength. You're intentional about taking that strength and utilizing it. That's where you get the best output for yourself every day, and that you're really operating on the (inaudible).-Is it possible to over-leverage one's strengths to then use and work your strengths too much? And how does that come about? How to prevent it? What would you say to that?-Oh, yes, absolutely. I talk about this quite often. They're called blind spots, is how Gallup references those. And with a blind spot, because all strengths are good, there's not one better than the other, right? They're neutral, they're all very positive, and a good way to think. You can definitely overuse a strength where it can become a hindrance. And if that happens, you're really tripping over yourself. And so there you have to put some guardrails up to kind of identify how may I be overusing a particular strength? So, if I lead with communication as a strength am I going to dominate the room? That doesn't give me that excuse to do so or dominate that conversation. So you have to temper that at times and know your audience. And I have a strength called context and another strength called input. Context is all about history and a little bit of caution with that. And let's make sure that we don't repeat mistakes based on what we've done. And then the other strength, input, is all about details. And so I often say to people, I'm quite riveting in my conversation, right? Because I want to talk about the details of history. But then you see the eyes glaze over with some of the people you're conversing with, and you think, oh, maybe you're not into this as much. And so it's really being aware of yourself and with your audience to make sure that you don't overdo it, that you don't make delays occur because you've got high deliberative and you're really assessing risk. Or you are over-communicating, overthinking. If you've got high analytical, which is another strength, are you looking at root cause too deeply and that you just can't get past yourself to deliver some sort of outcome or decision, which is not uncommon. So you just have to really navigate that very carefully.-As our listeners are hearing this conversation about strengths, and some may have been exposed to the strengths finders, you know, assessment, others may have not.-Yeah. What suggestions do you have for those that may not have taken it or be exposed to just...-Yeah.-What are natural ways to help identify some of our own strengths?-Yeah, I think that's a great question. So I'm a huge advocate of the tool itself because it really helps to validate some of that specific data. If you have not taken that assessment, you can absolutely identify what you need and what you bring to the table. Funny enough, Gallup actually has an activity that circulates around organizations and individuals that help people identify this is exactly what I bring. This is exactly what I need. So, if you apply that or leverage that into the work environment even, it's thinking through what am I good at? What really shows up for me where I can actually add value to a conversation or to a project? Or even a social setting to some sort of fun event. You know, where can I play a part? And then what do I need in return? And if you think about from a work perspective that could be, I really need saying clear direction and expectation, or how I'm going to be measured in something, or what is expected from the outcome in this goal. And so, if you can figure out and maybe even write that down, because you may have that recorded in your mind, but other people can't read that. So, put it to paper and explain that to someone you're working with. And then there's the other aspect of this activity, which can be, you know, this is... you can count on me to do this for you. This is really where you can lean into me and utilize my talents. And you can go back and reflect. Where are people giving you feedback to tell you,“You know what you're really good at? You're so approachable. You've got such a great ear. Thanks for helping me with this.” Or even, “I can really lean into you to help develop me. And you've been a great mentor, or helped me kind of think through some goals, or put that plan together.” And then, “This is what I need from you in return.” And really complete that activity to kind of develop that partnership even further. So there are ways to converge. You just have to organize the conversation and considering what you need and what you bring to the table to get things done together.-It sounds like it's really that kind of reflective activity of kind of seeing what sort of feedback have you gotten from others as well and assembling that and thinking, oh, okay. That is an indication, perhaps. And I... and let me add one thing and see what you think about it. It's also what energizes you. If you get more energy as you do that behavior or that activity, that often is a strengthening, or ultimately a strength. And if something kind of drains you or weakens you, that's often an indication that that might not be a strength of yours. Now, there might be needs for us in a moment to kind of show up and summon up some of that extra energy and put it in areas that we might not normally do that. And this is where I want to start talking about constant change and stress around us. So, how do we... How do we manage our strengths? How do our strengths show up as we are in constant change? What should we pay attention to and manage through those moments? Because those moments seem to be sometimes never-ending for a few of us in organizations these days.-So well put, Daniel. Yeah. I mean, who recalls even just a few years ago, how many times did we hear we're living in unprecedented times? And change fatigue is real. And there's a lot of research and work around this. People are certified in change management and how to navigate that. And everyone really navigates change very differently. And it's the first thing is understanding that and giving people grace in this space because you may show up and how you embrace change might look very different from me for a number of reasons. And that change fatigue and really weigh heavily on each of us. And so when we're in an environment, whether it's work, whether it's personal, where there's constant change, it can feel very disruptive. It can make us feel stuck. So you have to think about not throwing all of your strengths or how you might show up, to maybe angle that toward embracing that change or navigating that change, not about being fearless, like that's not what it means. You have to really scale it and maybe be very selective in that leveraging of that intentionality around your strengths. So maybe you pick one or two. So for me, if I look at my data and I say, gosh, I lead with context as a strength, as my number two, I really need to go back and identify what I have learned from the past. So for me, it's very easy to go back and say, hmm, I've had this change in my life. How did I get through that? What are some things I did to come out on the other side unscathed? Or what were some of the lessons I learned on what not to do and to put those guardrails up, and to maybe temper some of that so that I don't repeat the same mistakes? Not everybody may have that strength that they lead with. It doesn't mean they can't go to that moment of reflection, but there are probably some tools and things to think through if I lead with maybe high discipline, which is a strength that helps you create maybe a construct or a plan where you like order and methodology, do I need to map that out for myself again? Do I need options if I lead with a strategic thinking theme like strategy or strategic? Maybe I need to think about path A leads here, path B leads here. I'm going to go with Path C. That's the path of least resistance. So it's being very mindful and intentional about selecting one or two strengths without going all in and putting that pressure on yourself. I have to get through this. I've done, I've seen worse things. I can't believe I'm feeling stuck. It's okay to validate with yourself that it's a little bit paralyzing. And that you may need some help to reprioritize things as you embrace that constant change that may be coming at you especially at work, but could be from all facets in life, truly.-No, it's really good to think about how we personally respond-Yeah.-to these change situations. And I think a lot of this conversation about strengths has been focused on that self-identification, which is so valuable. And even just that moment to pause and recognize and ask answer some of those key questions you're asking about what we're good at.-Yeah.-What energizes us, those things. That's powerful for a leader. But let's pivot a little bit because leaders are not all about themselves.(laughing) At least we shouldn't be. We want to learn about ourselves. But it's also about trying to bring out the best in those around us.-Mmm.-How can a leader apply this strengths perspective to those around us?-Yeah, I think that's so great. You know, leaders... You know, leaders are held to higher standards, right? And they have to be a little bit selfless in this moment. I mean, the first thing is put your own oxygen mask on first, right, before assisting others. There's my airline lingo for all the years at Southwest. So you have to take care of yourself. You have to anchor yourself in some of your own well-being needs. Understand how you show up for yourself and then be prepared to lean into the people around you. As a leader, if you have direct reports or even indirect reports, it's asking and listening. It's going back to some of those coaching principles. It's not necessarily consulting or even mentoring, but really thinking about how do I want to ask the individual across from me or on a call, how are you doing? What's working for you? What's not working for you? What do I need to deflect for you or help remove from an obstacle perspective? And then maybe even get a little bit more deep and ask,“How is this change affecting you? But how are you navigating it? What have you done before?’ Especially if you know their strengths, but even if you don't, it's how do you... identify what's going to work well for you this week. Let's scale it. It's not about jumping into the deep end of the pool and trying to swim. It's about, all right, I'm going to help you think through a couple of options where I have noticed that you have navigated this very well. There's always the question whenever I coach someone is, you know, how do you want to handle this? How do you want to go about this? And oftentimes we might get a little bit of that look of like,“I don't know, that's why I'm asking you.” And then I would often reply with,“Well, what would you advise your best friend to do?” Naturally, they are going to gravitate toward how they would self-solve because that's how they show up with that. And I say, “I think that's a great start. Let's go there.” And now, from a next step perspective, what do you see or what outcomes do you want to see that comes from this by end of week, or end of month, or whatever that time is? And then get them to maybe think through just some things that you can even share. As leaders, you know, it's... It's tough, right? Because we're trying to navigate the work we have that we're responsible for and the care of our own employees while still reminding ourselves we too are human. So I often tell people that have leaders, you know, leaders are people too, right? Like, they're not going to do everything perfect. But if you can help your employees through asking and listening versus just consulting, it will really make a difference to help them feel like they can maybe open up a little bit more and think through what values they can bring and also what they need to the table, exactly what we were talking about.-I like this perspective-taking questioning to ask somebody else, how would you go about this? Or what advice would you have for somebody else? Or what would somebody else even suggest to you as a way of kind of opening up and seeing how they think and what strengths do they have because they will naturally gravitate to their preferences, what energizes, what excites them. So let me ask you a question. Sometimes you go into an organization and they are so believing in these strengths that they might like print them out. They have them on their cube or their desk. And I have to admit, I have mixed feelings about that because it's informative and educational. And yet, somehow it can also lead to misperceptions so that, say, I want to have a more strategic, critical conversation. I go over to you, Tiffany, and if I don't see strategy somewhere in the strengths, I'm like, oh, great. She won't be able to do this very well. I'm going to have to be patient. No, I'm going to go to talk to somebody. And yet, that's not the intent. The intent is to appreciate and start and respect those strengths, not to step away. So how do you manage that understanding of other people's strengths in that process?-Yeah, gosh, this is a very prevalent question as well. I think people have a natural fear of being perceived that they can't get something done or they can't show up the way they're expected to show up. So, you know, it's a reminder, first of all, that our data is so unique to us that sometimes if I look at a strength on a report it's completely outside that standard content or definition that Gallup might even define. It's so unique to the individual. So I'll take Achiever as an example. Achiever is the number one strength in America. And that's all about stamina, getting things done, and typically achievers from a standard content perspective really garner satisfaction by checking things off a list. So they have a task list a mile long. And they're going through and they're feeling good. They might even jot down something because they did it, but didn't have on their list, just to get that satiation, check it off, or to cross it out. And they do this even on the weekends. I have a little bit of Achiever envy because I don't have that particular strength. But it is one of those that that's what it's kind of known as. Now, if you meet someone with Achiever, they might say, “Yeah, that sounds exactly like me.” I have coached people who have had number one Achiever in their data, and they look nothing like the Achiever standard content. And I'll say, “Don't you love checking things off the list?” They're like, “Mmmmm...... not really. I mean it's part of it.” And then I think, oh, whoa, okay, I've not seen this show up before in a report. How interesting. And so when you think about people putting these names with their personal effects on their desk or on their door or even in their their their MS Teens or Zoom, and because it can show up and integrate, we go back to some of that. I often lead with, “Now, how does Achiever show up for you? I'm curious.” Without making assumptions, I like to dive in and ask. And there's nothing more that people love than talking about themselves. Oh, I can show you here's my Achiever and how that shows up for me. And I like to be busy And then I'll ask them, “What's that blind spot you've got there with Achiever? Is there anything that stands out for you?” And it could look like,“Yeah. I look around and wonder why no one's as busy as me. Why am I doing all of the work?” And so I might say, “Oh, how do you navigate that?” And that's tough, right? Like I'm asking more questions than what I'm assuming because our natural instinct is to make assumptions about people. Like I can figure that person out in five seconds. But I say think again, because you may not necessarily know no matter what, just like you can't make an assumption on a name or someone's appearance. Or maybe they seem very humble, so you think, well, maybe they don't have the information or the knowledge that I have. So it's sort of, you know, navigating a lot more than just strengths around that, but it's asking and getting to know people and exploring and seeking from a level of curiosity more so than making those assumptions.-Yeah, that perspective of curiosity is so helpful in so many areas as we learn and we're not assuming that we know those things.-Yeah.-Well, before we wrap this up, Tiffany, I have to ask you, because you've spent time in an organization that has such a reputation-Yeah.-of doing so many things so well.-Yeah.-What are things that you observed that at your time at Southwest Airlines that you think would be helpful for other leaders to hear and potentially implement in their own areas?-Yeah, you know, I think I spent many, many years with the strengths program at Southwest, which was already launched. You know, Gallup had gone in in 2012 and laid out this entire foundation for the program, did a lot of work with a couple of our departments from a grassroots perspective, and then it just grew and flourished to thousands and thousands of employees. I'm getting the opportunity to take the assessment and then begin diving in with some education and partnership. The biggest thing that I can see that I took away that really spoke to my heart because I have a lot of love for Southwest and a lot of love for strengths, is that I watched people change just in real time of maybe you know, tolerating, you know, differences to actually celebrating those differences. And so it really aligned with one of those values that Southwest really promotes, which is foster that sense of belonging. So it's making sure that people feel included, that their opinions count, and there's a lot of love at Southwest. People really do unite and love one another in that organization. And so that's just the expectation as an employee and especially as a leader. But we are different. And we do bring different perspectives and opinions. And I may not deliver something or think through something the way that you do, and that's okay. This really became a tool in our toolbox to hone in on the belief that it's okay that we are different. And it's not that you're trying to irritate me or that you're slow to get this stuff done. It's because you're thinking about it differently or approaching that differently. And then we began to celebrate one another with those unique differences so that I would intentionally seek out individuals to say,“I need a second set of eyes on this, and you have high maximizer in your strength. I'd love your perspective on this.” So that there doesn't become this kind of push-pull, and I'm going to own that, and you don't need to, and I'm going to covet my area. It became a bigger partnership for everyone. And that partnership grew to this magnitude that more people were soliciting one another for input and growth. And it really just aligned well with the culture at Southwest.-I love it. I love it. This is fantastic, Tiffany. So as we wrap up here, here's the final question. It's a question we ask many of our guests. It's the one thing question. And so here it is. What's the one thing, what's the one takeaway for that leaders should use and keep in mind as we then use strengths-based to help us lead well? What would you say that one thing is?-Yeah, I would say listen to your employees. Validate, right? So don't make assumptions. And if there's anything that I could recommend for any leader, it's reminding yourself that the way that you do things is the right way. The way someone who works with you or works for you does it differently is also the right way. So as you're assigning tasks or thinking about specific outcomes, t's not how you might march to this, it's how they might actually operate. And respecting that and just putting up some guardrails so they don't go off the cliff with this, but that truly they are able and empowered to get things done, even if it's a different approach than what you would take. If the work is getting done, it's getting done. And that was always a struggle for me as a leader is I wanted my team to do things the way that I would do it, and it worked well for me. It's okay to think a little bit differently. And I had a fantastic leader who thought differently from me and let me shine who I was while we operated very differently. So, that would be the one thing I would say is just keep that in the back of your mind so that you can help your team really optimize the way that they would naturally.-That's great. Tiffany, thank you. And thank you so much for being part of the Leadership Growth Podcast today.-Thank you both so much. Again, it's such an honor to be here. I really appreciate the time.-And to all of our listeners, thank you for joining us. And we certainly hope you've been able to take away several different tips, and insights, and tools to help you along your leadership journey. All the best. We look forward to having you join us in a future episode and like and subscribe. And until the next time, all the best, everyone. Take care. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague. Or, better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.