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Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined as always with my brother, Peter Stewart. And today we are honored to have a have a fantastic guest, mister André Van Hall. Thank you, André, for joining us today.-Well, thank you both, Daniel and Peter. It's delighted to be with you guys.-And André, we're going to be talking today about a very powerful topic, all around overcoming adversity and reinvention. And we'll see how each of us can take that topic and kind of look at our own lives, as we all then work through challenges and to see how we emerge on the other side of those challenges. But before we dive in, let me share with all of our listeners André's brief bio here so they have a sense of who he is. A native of Argentina, André has worked at some of the most prestigious hotels in the world, including the hotel Vier Jahr... I gotta say this right. Vier Jahreszeiten. Ah, how do you—-Jahreszeiten.-Jahreszeiten! Thank you! That's fantastic. I feel so silly. Yes, I feel silly. Thank you. As well as, and that's in Hamburg in Germany, once recognized as one of the top ten hotels in the world, clearly I need to go visit there. As well as working at the Ritz in Paris and the St. Regis in New York. Before retiring, he was the CEO of the historic Denver Athletic Club. And, after suddenly losing his eyesight in late 2011, he started a new career, as a professional speaker, with an emphasis on motivation, change management, and staff development.

And I'll also add the most recent accomplishment, André: 2:08

You were just telling us you were just awarded the Vistage Speaker of the Year. So congratulations, and welcome, André, to the Leadership Growth Podcast.-Well, delighted to be with you guys. So thank you. Let's have some fun.(laughing)-I love it. I love the energy. Okay, so let's build on that energy, André. Here's an opening question for you. This term, the curiosity instigator. How did you become a curiosity instigator?-That's a fun question. So you know, when I started my business, and I had to create a name for the business, and a title for myself, and I'd go like, why am I going to call myself president or CEO or whatever? I'm going like, what is a fun title for me to have? And I thought, well, my thing is about getting people to be curious. And so I'm going like, okay, so I'm going to be the curiosity something. And so talking with friends, the word instigator came up. And because my thing is, is how do we get the curiosity of every one of our team members? And I speak to people that I say, I'm not talking to you only as a professional, but only— also as a parent, spouse, or whatever. So how do we get everybody around us to be curious about the possibilities instead of the negativity?-I think that's a powerful notion that we'll be able to pull on quite a bit through the conversation today. And that just that... the benefit of curiosity.-Well, yes, it's... so the American Institute of Stress, in their research they say that, yeah, if you're under stress, you know, get a good night's sleep, eat a balanced diet, exercise, don't drink too much. Number one conclusion is get curious. And that curiosity truly is the key that unlocks change. And so when we're under stress, that means that there's change happening in our lives. And I think that curiosity truly is the ray of sunlight that gives us the possibilities of what can be.-Yeah, that ray of sunlight is powerful. So, as we dive into this, André, and I know we'll talk quite a bit about how you have used personal experiences to adopt that curiosity and how to share that with others. Let's... share a little bit of the backstory of, you know, as you did lose your sight. And then we'll lead into how curiosity has helped you as you've moved forward.-So I live in Denver, Colorado, and I'm an avid cyclist. And my last name is Van Hall. My cycling nickname is Van Haulingass. So I ride a lot. And I went on a bike ride with my friends to climb a very tall 14,200 foot mountain called Mount Ellen. And the next morning when I woke up, something was off with my eyesight. And it's a complicated thing, but it's something called non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy. Essentially, my optic nerve was starved from blood, and in two weeks I was blind. And so it was a devastating blow, needless to say, and something that came out of absolutely nowhere. And that forced me to prove my nettle. And as I'd like to say, is that, you know, as I was told I'd be blind in two weeks, I was laying on that gurney at the hospital. that, you know, immediately the sense of despair, of anger, of self-pity and whatever start to envelope me. And I'm there, I'm literally bawling. And what I call that is as if I was swirling down and down into a cesspool of toxic emotions. And I had a hard time with that. And so as eventually I lost my job and had to reinvent myself, And I'm like, well, I went through significant change and I've learned some lessons from it. So why don't I become a speaker, a speaker about the process of transitioning from the darkness of that cesspool into the light of the possibility. How's that?-That's fantastic. And it helps reinforce why you're title right now is this Curiosity Instigator. Because it sounds like really very much your mission is to help others be more curious about their challenges You know, I'm interested in all of the speaking you've done, and the people you've interacted with, what are some common reactions that you hear from people about why they struggle with adversity?-Well, you know, and it's the one thing that I keep hearing is, you know, your message was timely. I had to hear your message. And it's funny how things align sometimes. And... So when an organization is going through change, maybe they're implementing an ERP system or they're merging or they're dissolving, they have to give bad news to the team. And I feel that as professionals, we do a bad job. And the senior management is aware of what we're talking about. But as we go down the organizational chart we spend less and less time truly explaining the why and the what. When you are in that darkness and you're told you're going to be blind in two weeks, you can just, you know, embrace the darkness, stay down there and feel miserable. Or, you know, you can start doing research and asking questions. And, you know, I mean, doctors are telling me oh, this is a potential treatment. And no, no, no, don't do this other treatment because that is really bad. But no, no, don't do that one. And trying to figure out what is it you're going to do. And you do it by being curious and by talking to people, by doing research. So that is my message to people is that you can't just say, okay, it's the way that it is. But it is the way that it can be. And so my thing is, is that, you know, our job is to energize our teams to help them see the possibilities instead of only the negativity. With any change, there's going to be downsides. But why is it that we tend to focus so much on the downside and that we're so reluctant to see the upside? And I believe because sometimes the upside requires work, requires thinking, requires energy, requires getting out of your comfort zone.-As you were adapting to life without sight, I imagine, yes, you have the the range of emotions as you described.-Yeah.-And that cesspool of toxic emotion. I think that's such a vivid description of that experience. I imagine there were some short-term victories, those little winds as your world began to expand again-Yes.-from that. And then, what were... So you could share a little bit about some of those, but then also, were there things that you thought you might never be able to do again? Some of those larger things that you've been able to do?-Yes. Yes. Well, one thing I need to say is that, you know, to use the proper terminology, probably is that I'm visually impaired, okay? So when people tell you that you're 20-20 vision, that means you see at 20 feet what other people see at 20 feet. OK. Legally blind is 20-200. That means that you see at 200 feet what somebody, what a blind person sees at twenty feet. Okay? And I'm way beyond 20-200 and it is non-correctable, all right? So I see shapes and I see light, and that makes an enormous difference. But at the time that this happened, I didn't know how to interpret what I was seeing. So what I say is that I don't see, I interpret the light. So at the beginning, when all I could see was white fog, it was so scary because you're in a room and all of a sudden, is the door ten degrees to the right or fifteen degrees to the right? And then you're going out there with your hands trying to figure it out. And then as I started getting used to it and learning to interpret what I was seeing, things started to become a little bit more... possible. Okay. So first is I travel alone and uh so but when I get to the airport, somebody meets me and escorts me to the gate, and then I get met at the gate, and they put me in an Uber. The Uber drops me off at the hotel. So, with all of those accommodations, it helped a lot. But so here I am on that journey, right? And the first thing that I hear is that I need to purchase the implements to transition into blindness. And I'm not thinking about transitioning to anything because I'm down there. And so when I'm being told, hey, let's buy you the equipment, that was that first spark of like, whoa, I can't wait for darkness to come at me. I need to go out and confront it. So I found out that there is a state agency, the Colorado Division of Vocational Rehabilitation, whose job it is to help people overcome their disability and to work with it. And I'm refusing. I'm pushing back. I'm going like, no, no. My executive team wrote a letter to the board of directors saying whatever André can do, we will pick up the slack so he can keep doing his job. And rather than being humbled by just your support, I'm angry. What do you mean I can't do it? I'm André. Get lost, right? So the thing that I had to learn is the power of the word humility. And I was not a humble man. I did not know how to let people in. And so, if I have any advice for a listener, and that is that humility is a sign of strength, not a sign of weakness. Letting people help us is something so good, to let them help you. And then once I became more able, then I was able to help other people. And now I'm experiencing from the other side where I want to help people and they're going like, oh, no, no, I don't need your help. So I don't know if I answered the question, but the thing is, it's having to slowly but surely understand that I had to rebuild my life in a different format. But in a rebuilt life, it doesn't mean it was a lesser life. It's just different.-That's a great point. And so keep going from that perspective, because it sounds like as you kind of rebuilt your life, rebuilt the way you're kind of viewing yourself and others, how did you make that sustainable? How did you keep thinking that way? Because I think a lot of us can have a good day, you know, or have a good moment, or kind of suddenly feel like, oh, okay, things are okay right now. However, when the pressures add up or the stresses come, you know, tomorrow or in two weeks or in three months, how do you kind of weather through some of those natural challenging points so that you can keep that attitude of curiosity?-So it's, you know, it's funny how we get our inspiration, right? But there is a TV show called America’s Got Talent or Britain’s Got Talent, right? And this woman came to perform, and she's thirty years old, and she tells the judges that she's got cancer all over her body, and she's only got two percent chance of living. And she, her stage name is Nightbirde. And she sings beautifully. And so Simon Cowell, the very difficult British judge, is literally you see him drying off tears when she finishes. And he asked her, he says,“I don't understand. You're about to die. And you got this unbelievable attitude.” And her response moved me so deeply because she said,“You can't wait for life to stop being hard any more to be happy.” And that was so impactful, you know, for me to hear that from a woman that is about to die. And to say, yeah, you're going to have good days, you're going to have bad days, but your happiness doesn't come from it being a hard day or a difficult day. It comes from here. And we choose ...and one of the things that I have become aware of is that I tend to oversimplify my transition, because there's obviously people that have a lot more difficulty than some of us, right? They might be suffering from depression or whatever, which is essentially chemical imbalances in our body. So it would be unfair for me to say that we all should be able to do this. It's... I've been an optimist all my life, and I think that that has also helped. And but letting people in, letting people support you. And one of the things that we didn't discuss is that, yes, so my initial shock was that I went blind. But then a year after that, I lost my job. And so imagine, right, I'm now sixty-one years old, blind and unemployed. So can you imagine those four years, right? I mean, going blind, dealing with that, then losing my job, then having to deal with cancer, metastasis, surgeries, and infusions, okay, whatever. So it's like was one trial after another trial after another trial. And what I'd like to say is that by the time I was diagnosed with cancer I already was an expert at dealing with these sort of changes. And it affected me a lot less than if I had just not gone through other two steps and all of a sudden I'd told you got terminal cancer. Right?-Yeah.-So it's like one prepared me for the next one that prepared me for the next one. By the time I got to the third one, I was like, all right, so what else do you want to throw at me?(laughing)-And we're sitting here smiling as you're sharing that because of your just your attitude towards it all. But it's in no way downplaying the significance of those events that you're describing. So as you're reflecting on that and those experiences, and what advice do you have for listeners to kind of build that muscle to overcome adversity.-Yeah.-So that...-It's just people, you know, we have kids, right? And what I, when I started having younger managers under me and so they were starting families, what I learned is I told him, I said, you know what, in our marriage, we tried to hang on to our old lifestyle when the babies came along. And it's so counterproductive because you're never going to get that life back. It's a different life. It's not a different chapter. It's a new book. Yeah, right? And have fun writing that book of your new life. And so I had to go through that same thing for myself, that I had to realize that going blind is a new book and I can bemoan what I left behind, but that's destructive, that, you know, the more you go, oh, I can't do this anymore. So yeah, three days after I was diagnosed, I was going to be blind, I was driving home and I passed a cyclist and I didn't see her until she was in my peripheral vision. So I go to my driveway and I'm bawling. I am bawling, right? And I finally drive the car in the garage and gave my wife the keys to the car. I said, “I'm done. I can't drive anymore.” And that was so hard. So I rode my bike to work. And three days after that, I hit a pothole, went over the handlebars, got all bloodied. And I hung up my bike for good. And I'm going like, oh my god, I can't drive, I can't ride my bike, I'm an avid skier. And so I say blindness is robbing me of my reasons to live. And so then a friend of mine challenged me and says,“André, why don't you and I do the 100 mile elephant rock bike ride on a tandem?” I was like, no way! Right? I have to be in charge of the gears and the brakes. I'm not sitting in the back of a tandem, okay, whatever. And so I'm sitting on the couch today in that darkness. And all of a sudden I'm going like, whoa, you know, if... if I sit here, I'm going to be four hundred pounds And so I... and you know, I said my wife... put me out of my misery, okay? And uh so... I'm like, I need to do something. So I called my friend and I said, let's do it. I bought a tandem and I loved it. I loved it. It was different. And but what I had to learn is that I can say, oh, now it's so complicated because if I want to ride, I have to call a friend that is willing to be my captain and we have to find the time. And so yeah, it adds layers of complexity. But what you have to realize is what you need to focus is in what you can do, if you're willing to adapt, okay? So I'd like to say, no, is it that somebody is bound to a wheelchair? Or is that wheelchair their tool for freedom? So it's two ways of looking at it, right? So is it something that ties you down, or it's something that gives you tools so you can do things. So it's how we choose to focus on the adaptability. My hobby was photography. And I had to give it up. And man, was it hard, okay, to sell all my curated, carefully curated equipment. and you know, I like to say I rafted the whole Grand Canyon and did so many other great things. And the idea of being in that Grand Canyon and seeing nature, and then realizing I will never see the world again through my eyes. And so I can be into that, I will never see it, but what if I experience it? And so it's you have to shift. And you have to accept that, all right, I don't have it anymore. But you might be saying,“Wow, if I had eyes behind my head, how much more productive could I be?” And now you're miserable because you don't have eyes behind your head. And you're going like, oh, this life sucks. And so it's the same thing. You lose your eyes and you're going like, okay, I don't have that anymore. So what do I have? And what can I use? And how do I adapt?-So, André, thank you for sharing this, by the way. And let me ask you a hard question. If you had a choice, would you give up the blindness? Would you say, please, take this from me? I want to have my sight once back as I once had it, would you give it up?-It's interesting because I was speaking and a lady asked me the exact same question. She said, if I had a choice, would I give up the gift of blindness? And my reaction was, oh my god, what can I throw at you?(laughing) Right? And then I slowed down and I had to think about it, right? And I'm going like, so my career was running hotels and big hotels, right? And so in today's world, when you're running a hotel with 1,400 employees, you can't find them, in the competitiveness of the industry or whatever. And I'm going like, I don't want to be there anymore. Well, I'm 72 years old. I should be retired, right?-Mm hmm.-And so if I if I was sighted, I'd be retired and I'd be able to go out and ski on my own or go out in and cycle. But now I can't do those things. And but this opened this whole thing about me going on the road and continuing to work. I would never have wanted to continue working in the hospitality. I loved it. It was great while it lasted. But now that it's behind me, my life is awesome, you know. And yeah, it's complicated. I fall, I get hurt, I walk into things, you know, and... but I'm okay where I am. And so, to answer your question, I don't think I would be honest with myself if I said, wow. if I could see again. You know, I've got two granddaughters, I've never seen their faces and wow, you know, being able to see them, and... but I experience them, you know, and their humor and their... I don't know. It's a different way of experiencing the world. So, no, I'm fine where I am.-I appreciate your candor and honesty, André, as you're sharing just the process by which you're thinking about things and this shift in life. And I know we've been talking a lot about this and how it's been applying to you personally. And as listeners, as we're hearing this and thinking about within our own lives, let's take a minute and see how some of these principles transition into more of the professional setting.-Please.-As you think about how we can leverage some of these skills of being able to reframe things and others to help leaders, you know, work with their teams better or to lead through change more effectively.-Yeah. And so that is my main message in my talk. And so I begin by saying that curiosity is what unlocks change. Without curiosity, there's no change. So, what are you, as the business person, as a parent, doing to wake up the curiosity of your team. Curiosity, I think, is the first thing. Then I mentioned it earlier, right? I mean, the importance for me to be humble and to let people in. And so if you're not humble, my thing is change comes because your team sees things that you don't. And in the day where change comes from the top down, I think need to change. Humility is not only letting people help you, but also understanding that you don't know everything. And I call that intellectual humility. It's essentially humility to say, I don't have all the answers. So, how can I get the team to do that? And the next step that I think is important is that we tend to judge, right? André, you're going to be blind in two weeks. And man, did I judge my potential? And I instantly am going like, oh, and I dropped my expectation of myself because of that. So it's so easy to judge, right? I say I'm from Denver, you're going, oh, I must be a damn Broncos fan, right? But judging is easy. Assessing takes work. And that is what we need to learn to do when our employees come to us and they say,“Hey, I've got an idea.” It's so easy to say,“You know, it didn't work before. We tried it, oh, we don't have the money,” and immediately judge it and write it off. But what if we say, oh, wait a minute, I'm being too quick in judging here. Let me assess instead. And the final step, I think, is that I don't care how curious you or your team are, because if they're not taking initiative, nothing changes. So then, how do you shift to a culture where your team is taking the initiative? How do you make it safe for them to step outside of their comfort zone? Our parents complain about us, and we complain about the next— Our job is to find how to engage them. Just like I had to find the way to deal with my new reality, right? Our job is to find the way, instead of just complaining, so I would take that HR director and say, “So, what are you doing about it?” So if 50% of our employees are disengaged, that's it's like my controller telling me my provision for doctoral accounts is 8%, that should be .2%, right? So if you want to keep your job, what are you going to do about it? And so to challenge our teams to have the curiosity, to have the humility, to stop judging, to start assessing, and then to take the necessary initiative to... and so what I say is that I dislike the word empowerment. Because to me, empowerment doesn't go far enough. Empowerment isn't giving you permission. But then you're going to go like, but I wasn't comfortable, or I didn't have all the information. Okay, whatever. So what I like to say is that our role is to build a road. I had to build a road to deal with my blindness and to build my business. But to build a road, I have to create a vision. I have to know which way I'm going. I have to remove the obstacles, okay? So, therefore, I say if I'm the road builder, that means that I have to do my job before my team can do theirs. And I therefore say that I work for my employees, and that is, of course, servant leadership. And that's why I talk about humility, is that we have to have that in place. So then my next analogy is to say, okay, so if I'm the road builder, I absolutely cannot be the pothole fixer. Because if I'm coming back from way out there where I'm rebuilding the road to come back and fix potholes, I lose my efficiency. So what I have to do is to rely on my team so that as problems arise, they fix them at their level. I give them the training, I give them the tools, I give them the vision. And there's no different with the disability, right? If something happens that derails your life, what is the initiative that you're willing to take to pave the road to make things possible.-André, this is tremendously powerful and inspirational guidance. And it's also very practical as we're all wanting to think through how to best show up during times of adversity and then how we reinvent ourselves.

So as we wrap this up, here's my final question: 30:24

What's the one thing that leaders need to keep in mind as they reinvent themselves to become even stronger and better, especially amid challenge and adversity?-We should never waste a good crisis. And so if a crisis arises, what can we learn from it? So as a leader, when you are in a situation of crisis, engage your team. And don't feel that it's all on your shoulders. And share that with people around you. And surround yourself with people like you.-Thank you, André. And we heard your comments as well. So thank you very much. And it's been an absolute pleasure to have you be part of the Leadership Growth Podcast. Especially because this podcast is all about offering ideas and ways for all of us to become better. And we all have challenges. We all go through adversity and we all have to relook at ourselves and pick ourselves back up and sometimes change and reinvent. So, thank you very much for sharing your story. All of our listeners, thank you for joining us today. Please listen in the future, and we hope that these ideas will help you as you lead others. All the best and take care, everyone. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague. Or better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.